Risa
New member
Why the price difference - does anyone have any comments. I looking to buy. Log wind. depth. GPS repeater, auto pilotplotter and radar. I now Raymarine all talk to each other but is the extra cost worthwhile
ST60/Clipper
- Thread starter Risa
- Start date
petery
New member
I chose Raymarine ST40 depth speed and wind, combined radar/plotter, GPS and Autohelm - which includes a fluxgate compass. I fitted them myself and they worked immediately.
I think it would be difficult to get the simple, yet total, integration that Raymarine provide with a mix of Clipper and other kit. For example, radar/chart overlay; steering relative to wind; all panel lights dim in 'unison'; all data can appear on the radar/plotter display as well as the individual instruments.
I know that linking by NMEA can do some of this but IMHO the ease of linking is worth the price premium
... but I'm buying a Clipper navtex.
I think it would be difficult to get the simple, yet total, integration that Raymarine provide with a mix of Clipper and other kit. For example, radar/chart overlay; steering relative to wind; all panel lights dim in 'unison'; all data can appear on the radar/plotter display as well as the individual instruments.
I know that linking by NMEA can do some of this but IMHO the ease of linking is worth the price premium
... but I'm buying a Clipper navtex.
yachtbits
Member
Benefits of Raymarine,
significantly better built. masthead units much more robust,
depth transducers flush fitting. hull transducers (depth & log) both internally removable for maintenance.
Interfacing a complete doddle.
Nasa interfacing is simple too, you can't!
We sell both brands because the market demands both. But we only stock and sell spares only for Nasa. We very rarely get asked for Raymarine spares.
If you can afford it, buy Raymarine.
kev
www.yachtbits.co.uk
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrical/electronics specialists
significantly better built. masthead units much more robust,
depth transducers flush fitting. hull transducers (depth & log) both internally removable for maintenance.
Interfacing a complete doddle.
Nasa interfacing is simple too, you can't!
We sell both brands because the market demands both. But we only stock and sell spares only for Nasa. We very rarely get asked for Raymarine spares.
If you can afford it, buy Raymarine.
kev
www.yachtbits.co.uk
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrical/electronics specialists
FlyingSpud
Member
I’ have been wondering the same as Risa and think I will go for the more expensive equipment, but do you, or anyone else, feel the same applies in turn to Raymarine and B&G, or are B & G just trading off of their racing/Ellen McArthur connections to get a higher price?
petery
New member
ps bought mine from yachtbits NM
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LeonF
Active member
I had an old ST400 autopilot and ST50 depth. My 22 year old B@G Hercules bits and pieces finally gave up so I had ST60 Wind, Speed and Repeater on the hatch and the 300 GPS at the chart table. They all talk to each other and when motoring across the North Sea to Holland on the autopilot I was right on target for every waypoint. A great comfort when thick fog descended off the North Foreland on the return- with just two on board it was reassuring not to have to worry about navigation and just concentrate on keeping a lookout. On other occasions it is useful to be able to auto steer to the wind. A friend who has ben fitting out his steel boat and has just completed a singlehanded trip from Durban to the Azores had researched a fair number of instruments and recommended the ST60. The only reservation he had was their ultimate waterproofness.
L.A.R.Ferguson
L.A.R.Ferguson
vyv_cox
Well-known member
B&G
My 15 year old Hornet 4 boat speed and wind instruments are still working perfectly. Wind speed and boat speed are on analogue displays and despite the increased likelihood that mechanical things will go wrong, they never have. The only problem we have had is that the bearings in the masthead unit failed about two years ago and the plastic of which the anemometer is made became very brittle, causing it to break when the mast was being taken down.
I'm now looking at replacing the old Corus depth and Dataline GPS repeater with B&G H1000. This will be an expensive business by the time all the adaptors and interfaces are included. Cost from Cactus (if they ever respond to my e-mails) will be something like 1000 GBP.
My 15 year old Hornet 4 boat speed and wind instruments are still working perfectly. Wind speed and boat speed are on analogue displays and despite the increased likelihood that mechanical things will go wrong, they never have. The only problem we have had is that the bearings in the masthead unit failed about two years ago and the plastic of which the anemometer is made became very brittle, causing it to break when the mast was being taken down.
I'm now looking at replacing the old Corus depth and Dataline GPS repeater with B&G H1000. This will be an expensive business by the time all the adaptors and interfaces are included. Cost from Cactus (if they ever respond to my e-mails) will be something like 1000 GBP.
Celena
New member
Yes, but new paddlewheel plus retaining pin for log ST40=£20, NASA=£5! Customer Service, Raymarine all round the houses, finish up talking to USA and a web help site that dosn't reply to e-mails, NASA a nice, helpful man on the phone. Well, if you are seduced by all that glossy advertising which the customer, in the end, pays for...
extravert
New member
I think most of the answers have been given but here's my 3 cents worth...
With an integrated system you can show information that requires input from more than one sensor. The most useful of these is probably wind information. With integrated instruments you can show true windspeed and direction, with stand-alones like the Clippers you can only see measured windspeed and direction, ie apparent.
Another useful example of these secondary calculated measurements that I have available on my Cetrek system is tidal set and drift. I don't know if the ST60 stuff shows that, but the Clipper stuff definately won't.
With an integrated system you can show information that requires input from more than one sensor. The most useful of these is probably wind information. With integrated instruments you can show true windspeed and direction, with stand-alones like the Clippers you can only see measured windspeed and direction, ie apparent.
Another useful example of these secondary calculated measurements that I have available on my Cetrek system is tidal set and drift. I don't know if the ST60 stuff shows that, but the Clipper stuff definately won't.
dickh
New member
I have fully integrated ST50's on my boat, with a Magellan GPS which were all on board when bought 5 years ago. I have only had to replace the log paddle wheel, which was a fairly major job as you have to buy the complete housing and paddlewheel as they are not interchangeable. But managed it when dried out on the piles. I like the way all the instruments can 'talk' to each other.
I have also used Nasa on previous boats, only the log and depth and they both worked fine - it all depends on your budget.
dickh
I'd rather be sailing...
I have also used Nasa on previous boats, only the log and depth and they both worked fine - it all depends on your budget.
dickh
I'd rather be sailing...
johna
New member
<interfacing a complete doddle>
Kev
Are you choosing to forget my experience earlier this year? Only joking really but it did take two returns to Portsmouth before they listened to my description of the problem and found a solution.
However, todate all is well and they do perform.
Re log transducer is it possible to change my ST50 skin fitting to the later self closing type. My hairs on the back of my neck still stand upright whenever I take it out to clean.
John Arrowsmith
Kev
Are you choosing to forget my experience earlier this year? Only joking really but it did take two returns to Portsmouth before they listened to my description of the problem and found a solution.
However, todate all is well and they do perform.
Re log transducer is it possible to change my ST50 skin fitting to the later self closing type. My hairs on the back of my neck still stand upright whenever I take it out to clean.
John Arrowsmith
G
Guest
Guest
Performance of Nasa
Being a cheapskate I have Nasa duet, wind and GPS repeater on board, all fitted 2 years ago. All have worked perfectly and I have had good customer support (replacing lost covers, wiring GPS repeater) from Nasa. They look / feel lower quality than raymarine but they certainly do the job.
Andy
Being a cheapskate I have Nasa duet, wind and GPS repeater on board, all fitted 2 years ago. All have worked perfectly and I have had good customer support (replacing lost covers, wiring GPS repeater) from Nasa. They look / feel lower quality than raymarine but they certainly do the job.
Andy
rex_seadog
New member
Re: ST60/Clipper + Echopilot
Can I add Echopilot to this debate. Where do they come in the league table? We bought their combined log/ depth instrument 4-5 years ago, mainly influenced by the price (a little higher than NASA but significantly less than the big boys), the clear display and a helpful chat at a show with their M.D. After the first season the display failed and was repaired FOC albeit with the hassle of having to remove and return it. Since then we have had a few intermittent problems which have seemed to right themselves although the total distance is reading negative - perhaps we operate astern propulsion too often! Also early season condensation problems. Is this par for the course or have we been unlucky?
Have also been tempted by their ultrasonic log sensor to avoid the regular chore of removing nasties from the paddle-wheel but put off by the cost and possible reliability (and accuracy?) concerns.
Can I add Echopilot to this debate. Where do they come in the league table? We bought their combined log/ depth instrument 4-5 years ago, mainly influenced by the price (a little higher than NASA but significantly less than the big boys), the clear display and a helpful chat at a show with their M.D. After the first season the display failed and was repaired FOC albeit with the hassle of having to remove and return it. Since then we have had a few intermittent problems which have seemed to right themselves although the total distance is reading negative - perhaps we operate astern propulsion too often! Also early season condensation problems. Is this par for the course or have we been unlucky?
Have also been tempted by their ultrasonic log sensor to avoid the regular chore of removing nasties from the paddle-wheel but put off by the cost and possible reliability (and accuracy?) concerns.
dickh
New member
I had to change from the ST50 type to the latest(ST60??) type but they were not interchangeable so had to fit the complete assembly including housing, which I did over a tide leaning against the piles. I now have the 'self-closing' type - much better but you still get some water in.
BUT the design of the 'new' is not as good as the old - you have to fit it EXACTLY in position or else it leaks!! - I thought the boat was a bit sluggish and down by the head, and found I had the forepeak under the bunks completely full of water!
dickh
I'd rather be sailing...
BUT the design of the 'new' is not as good as the old - you have to fit it EXACTLY in position or else it leaks!! - I thought the boat was a bit sluggish and down by the head, and found I had the forepeak under the bunks completely full of water!
dickh
I'd rather be sailing...
billmacfarlane
Active member
Don't know about the NASA kit but you don't necessarily have to stick to the same kit. I've got Raymarine log/echosounder/wind/radar/autopilot interfaced with Furuno GPS and Navtex and the GPS works quite happily with the Raymarine chart plotter. My installation is now a year old and so far totally hassle free.
FlyingSpud
Member
Re: B&G
But are they better than Raymarine, or at least better enough to justify the price? The truth is that we never really know as none of us are going to buy more than one set to compare, and we will not ever be able to tell until we have a magazine that really compares marine equipment, rather than pussyfooting around trying to avoid upsetting advertisers
But are they better than Raymarine, or at least better enough to justify the price? The truth is that we never really know as none of us are going to buy more than one set to compare, and we will not ever be able to tell until we have a magazine that really compares marine equipment, rather than pussyfooting around trying to avoid upsetting advertisers
gd7hej
New member
i would go for th ST system,I wont touch clipper again,water got into my log head unit in my cockpit,they said water came in from the plug on the back of the unit,if that is the case water would be in my galley aswell..they refused to replace it there loss.best regards graham..
yachtbits
Member
Hi John
must admit yours was an exceptional case, caused by a defective component that Raymarine themselves failed to diagnose.
I'll mail you tomorrow regarding the self sealing skin fittings.
regards
kev
www.yachtbits.co.uk
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrical/electronics specialists
must admit yours was an exceptional case, caused by a defective component that Raymarine themselves failed to diagnose.
I'll mail you tomorrow regarding the self sealing skin fittings.
regards
kev
www.yachtbits.co.uk
sales@yachtbits.co.uk
marine electrical/electronics specialists
Avocet
Well-known member
I replaced an ST 30 a few years ago with a NASA CLipper log and have not had a moment's trouble. The Raymarine unit looked better and felt to be of better quality but after a year in use misted up persistently and eventually died. When I did take it to bits, there was a lot of corrosion on one corner of the circuit board. The Nasa, on the other hand, looks a bit "home-made" but works faultlessly. I then bought a NASA depthsounder to keep the log company. It works well but sometimes (usually a couple of times per season) goes completely mad and flashes up wildly fluctuating depths for no reason that I've been able to fathom (oops, sorry, couldn't resist that). Turning the power off for a few hours seems to apease it - which isn't that convenient if you're about to hit the bottom!
vyv_cox
Well-known member
Re: B&G
I agree, all we can do is compare our own experiences here. I'm pretty impressed with my Hornet 4, considering that they are not supposed to be watertight mine have done incredibly well.
Agree about the cost though, the H1000 has been introduced as a budget range but by the time all the bits and pieces are added it is not cheap. The speed/depth is just under 500 GBP at Cactus but adding another display for GPS repeater is going to add another 500 GBP. You need to watch for the hidden extras, like interfaces.
I agree, all we can do is compare our own experiences here. I'm pretty impressed with my Hornet 4, considering that they are not supposed to be watertight mine have done incredibly well.
Agree about the cost though, the H1000 has been introduced as a budget range but by the time all the bits and pieces are added it is not cheap. The speed/depth is just under 500 GBP at Cactus but adding another display for GPS repeater is going to add another 500 GBP. You need to watch for the hidden extras, like interfaces.
