chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
They are already talking to UK independents about how boats and lifesavings can be managed autonomously.
St Helier
- Thread starter Ehecatl
- Start date
They are already talking to UK independents about how boats and lifesavings can be managed autonomously.
rich
Well-Known Member
Today the future of the crew remained in turmoil after questions emerged about the feasibility of them operating independently following their shock announcement on Monday.
The crew’s coxswain, Andy Hibbs, admitted ‘nobody knows’ how the future is going to pan out, nor what will happen to the £2.7 million George Sullivan all-weather lifeboat and the £6.9 million that is held in St Helier station’s bank account.
In 2009, the St Helier station bought the vessel after a major RNLI fundraising campaign – £1 million was used from the station’s reserves and £1.7 million was raised by Islanders and other organisations.
According to a spokesman from the St Helier crew it currently costs £212,000 a year to run both the St Helier and St Catherine’s stations. The St Catherine station has no plans to split from the RNLI.
One of the biggest costs is the boat, and the spokesman said it was likely that the crew would look to buy its own vessel when it leaves the charity. The crew say it could take up to a year to buy a new vessel, although add that it could hire one sooner.
‘The plan at the moment, which is in the early stages, is that we would purchase off the shelf but to our spec,’ the spokesman said.
‘We would also need an inshore boat but we have been in contact with the French shipyard who builds the French lifeboats and they have a relief boat if we need it.’
Asked about what might happen to the current all-weather boat and the millions of pounds in the bank, Coxswain Andy Hibbs said: ‘Nobody knows. We don’t know where we stand with anything at the moment.’
Speaking on behalf of the Council of Ministers, Environment Minister Steve Luce said the government had not had any discussions about funding and what public money, if any, might be available to an independent crew.
The crew’s coxswain, Andy Hibbs, admitted ‘nobody knows’ how the future is going to pan out, nor what will happen to the £2.7 million George Sullivan all-weather lifeboat and the £6.9 million that is held in St Helier station’s bank account.
In 2009, the St Helier station bought the vessel after a major RNLI fundraising campaign – £1 million was used from the station’s reserves and £1.7 million was raised by Islanders and other organisations.
According to a spokesman from the St Helier crew it currently costs £212,000 a year to run both the St Helier and St Catherine’s stations. The St Catherine station has no plans to split from the RNLI.
One of the biggest costs is the boat, and the spokesman said it was likely that the crew would look to buy its own vessel when it leaves the charity. The crew say it could take up to a year to buy a new vessel, although add that it could hire one sooner.
‘The plan at the moment, which is in the early stages, is that we would purchase off the shelf but to our spec,’ the spokesman said.
‘We would also need an inshore boat but we have been in contact with the French shipyard who builds the French lifeboats and they have a relief boat if we need it.’
Asked about what might happen to the current all-weather boat and the millions of pounds in the bank, Coxswain Andy Hibbs said: ‘Nobody knows. We don’t know where we stand with anything at the moment.’
Speaking on behalf of the Council of Ministers, Environment Minister Steve Luce said the government had not had any discussions about funding and what public money, if any, might be available to an independent crew.
dogleg
Well-Known Member
https://jerseyeveningpost.com/news/...feboat-crews-rnli-split-8-questions-answered/
this link gives a good account of the issue and confirms what I have been told and what has filtered down to the us many miles away, the emails were apparently very strong and although the sentiments possibly expressed were perhaps unwise perhaps they might have been dealt with more wisely by Poole in view of what were malicious allegations. He was given a full public apology by the RNLI. There are other rumours which may or not be true.
I suspect where the money for the boat came from is neither here nor there, our new boat, it belong to the RNLI, something the press statement seems to accept, some years ago was funded locally but the RNLI do I believe insert a clause which gives them the right to transfer it wherever something which happens quite often for all sorts of reasons
Fr J Hackett
Well-Known Member
£6.9 million in an account to fund £210,000 annual running costs? seems a tad over the top if they go to court over it it will end up like Jarndyce v Jarndyce, not much left.
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
I think that there is a legal issue as well as a moral issue. Legally (IMO) there is no doubt that the RNLI owns the boat and the property. However morally the funds were raised locally for local use. What therefore would be the moral claim of the RNLI to withhold the property from those who originally funded it?
Had the RNLI paid for the boat entirely out of its reserves the argument would be different.
For goodness sake it's not as if they need the funds!
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
Not exactly what the papers say:
"Ports of Jersey own the land but the station was actually built by the RNLI in 1993. The crew’s presence, while they are part of the RNLI, on the land is secured on a long-lease that was only recently re-negotiated after the incorporation of Ports of Jersey in 2015. The RNLI pay a peppercorn rent for the use of the land to Ports of Jersey."
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
As I understand it , part of the dispute was with the harbour master- hence, one might assume, possibly harbour authority-Would they allow an alternative life boat to be located there ?
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
Absolutely agree with you (again!) about the morality - and indeed, if it was part funded by bequest which stated usage conditions (e.g. To be operated in St Helier), I suspect the RNLI would do what they have elsewhere and simply try and recruit a new crew.
Politically, there is no way Poole would ever allow a Shannon to be taken over by an independent organisation - the egos at Poole are far too large for that.
dogleg
Well-Known Member
</script>="8" cols="60" tabindex="1">
that is indeed one of the other rumours we have heard but the current harbour master is new and was not in place when the dispute erupted
that is indeed one of the other rumours we have heard but the current harbour master is new and was not in place when the dispute erupted
dogleg
Well-Known Member
[QUOTE=Sybarite;6249347]I think that there is a legal issue as well as a moral issue. Legally (IMO) there is no doubt that the RNLI owns the boat and the property. However morally the funds were raised locally for local use. What therefore would be the moral claim of the RNLI to withhold the property from those who originally funded it?
Had the RNLI paid for the boat entirely out of its reserves the argument would be different.
For goodness sake it's not as if they need the funds![/QUOTE]
shortly after we received our new boat some years ago we received another bequest with instructions for it to be used here, we are unlikely to have a new boat for many years so this second gift will remain possibly in the restricted fund for many years unless the executors and family members can be persuaded otherwise
Had the RNLI paid for the boat entirely out of its reserves the argument would be different.
For goodness sake it's not as if they need the funds![/QUOTE]
shortly after we received our new boat some years ago we received another bequest with instructions for it to be used here, we are unlikely to have a new boat for many years so this second gift will remain possibly in the restricted fund for many years unless the executors and family members can be persuaded otherwise
mainsail1
Well-Known Member
I know from the comments here that this will not be popular but I believe the RNLI cannot let the tail wag the dog.
If the present crew wish to leave then let them leave, sad as it may be and whatever the short lived media storm that erupts.
The RNLI then must start the difficult but essential job of finding a new lifeboat crew to man an RNLI lifeboat at St Helier.
The thought of giving away assets or money to the present coxswain and his merry crew is nonsense. The funds were given to be used by the RNLI and they must be in this for the long term.
If the present crew wish to leave then let them leave, sad as it may be and whatever the short lived media storm that erupts.
The RNLI then must start the difficult but essential job of finding a new lifeboat crew to man an RNLI lifeboat at St Helier.
The thought of giving away assets or money to the present coxswain and his merry crew is nonsense. The funds were given to be used by the RNLI and they must be in this for the long term.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
I saw that, but perhaps it's some tax dodge.
prv
Well-Known Member
Agree it seems highly unlikely that any RNLI cash or assets would go to a new independent, I can't see any grounds for that to happen.
I have no knowledge of the mood in Jersey, but if it is and remains strongly against the RNLI, would they still try to run a station in the face of local opposition?
Pete
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
dogleg
Well-Known Member
he had a public apology but clearly that did not satisfy him, I wonder what might have happened if the RNLI had told him who had made the allegations
mainsail1
Well-Known Member
It may be the Coxswain considers himself indispensable. In which case I refer him to this poem, first indicated by Dylan:
(by Saxon White Kessinger)
Sometime when you're feeling important;
Sometime when your ego 's in bloom;
Sometime when you take it for granted,
You're the best qualified in the room:
Sometime when you feel that your going,
Would leave an unfillable hole,
Just follow these simple instructions,
And see how they humble your soul.
Take a bucket and fill it with water,
Put your hand in it up to the wrist,
Pull it out and the hole that's remaining,
Is a measure of how much you'll be missed.
You can splash all you wish when you enter,
You may stir up the water galore,
But stop, and you'll find that in no time,
It looks quite the same as before.
The moral of this quaint example,
Is to do just the best that you can,
Be proud of yourself but remember,
There's no indispensable man.
(by Saxon White Kessinger)
Sometime when you're feeling important;
Sometime when your ego 's in bloom;
Sometime when you take it for granted,
You're the best qualified in the room:
Sometime when you feel that your going,
Would leave an unfillable hole,
Just follow these simple instructions,
And see how they humble your soul.
Take a bucket and fill it with water,
Put your hand in it up to the wrist,
Pull it out and the hole that's remaining,
Is a measure of how much you'll be missed.
You can splash all you wish when you enter,
You may stir up the water galore,
But stop, and you'll find that in no time,
It looks quite the same as before.
The moral of this quaint example,
Is to do just the best that you can,
Be proud of yourself but remember,
There's no indispensable man.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
If that were the case, his crew and shore team wouldn't be backing him.
Blue Sunray
Well-Known Member
That is, IMHO, rather a naive view. The old small communities and 'outsiders' syndrome are just as likely an influence on the apparent backing that he has.
chanelyacht
Well-Known Member
Nope.
Having been on a number of lifeboat crews, the Cox is there because he has earned his place, and has the full respect of his crew.
A bad cox, whether local or not, will not last long.
Angele
Well-Known Member
Channelyacht
That is undoubtedly true. But I wouldn't dismiss the impact of local feelings as alluded to by Elecglitch - a good Cox who is an outsider will find it difficult to gain the support of local crew for as long as support for Andy Hibbs remains strong.
I struggle to imagine that the RNLI will want to ship in whole crews indefinitely (as they had to do for the period when the dispute raged back in the Spring).
Oh, and I think it is a Tamar, not a Shannon. (Your post #28).