SSB ATU - HAM AND MARINE?

LadyStardust

LadyStardust

Well-Known Member
Joined
14 Oct 2004
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159
Location
Chiapas, Mexico
sistermidnight.co.uk
Hi, I have a Ham license and a GOC (Ships radio License) I want to fit an ssb into my boat and will either buy a marine rig like the Icom 802 or a ham rig, either way I want to open them up so I can use both ham and marine frequencies. I want to know if the ATU's like the Icom AT140 are tailored for Ham and/or marine, i.e. can i use the same atu for both sets of frequencies or are they tweaked to only work on one set of bands?
 
If you have a ham license the answer is obvious - just read the spec on various tuners. FWIW SGC 230 (see wsplc) covers the lot.
 
Hi Ladystardust,

I use an icom AT4 (I think it is) with my Icom 706MkII 'Ham' set-up, that covers all its frequencies. Perfect transmit/receive tuning if used with an insulated backstay antenna of at least 11-11.5 metres long.

Cheers Jerry
 
Mike
I respect your opinions, but the concept of forcing us to have to carry two SSB radiios to cope with Ham and SSB is on the dafter side of completely barking! /forums/images/graemlins/ooo.gif
 
An Icom 703 is an excellent ham mobile set - little built in tuner or add one...
For info on getting it 'snipped' search

yahoo group radiomodifications

very easy....

Next time I cross I will get one of these rather than a maritime set... As I keep saying once you are out of UK waters.... And you appear to have all the licenses anyway!
 
What I would say, a side from the legal stuff, is that as soon as you mod either of the radio's say good bye to any warranty with us.

No wide band mod is covered under our warranty terms.

Regards
 
Sorry, I wasn't aware that you were being "forced" to carry any radio? However, if you choose to access two seperate and distinct radio services I thought it would be helpful to highlight some of the relevant rules for doing so.

I've only supplied the facts, do with them what you will but remember ignorance is no defence in law.

Mike
 
Thanks for the helpfull replies, I was wondering more about the modern ATUs that have a data connection between the ATU and the rig, I was worried that perhaps they send 'band' information to the ATU to assist in selecting the coil/capacitor settings and how that would work if it was not in the range of 'normal' bands. Looking at the SGC 230, it seems quite smart all on its own.
As far as legality goes, I hadnt considered the issue of type approval, I can understand the warranty side, especially if HW mods are made. Hmmm, well I will just have to undo the mods when within the Juristiction of an ITU member state ;-)
 
Mike,

I am aware that the rules are what they are, and also that you have no control over this peice of legislation, but one day if sufficient of us make enough noise, perhaps sanity might prevail. After all the present system does not really encourage an adherence to the law - long range certificates can only be got from commercial companies at an exorbitant fee, and they are only tangentally valid for the average yachtie, most of whom these days only want the beast for weather fax and maritime chat nets. An iridium phone costs less to purchase, doesnt need skilled fit, and doesnt need an expensive certificate for use, it will also do everything an SSB will do (only better) except for those maritime chat nets.
 
Hi PhilipH, An ATU (Aerial/Antenna tuning unit) is used to match the SSB radio to the Aerial. The SSB likes 50-75 ohm aerials, but a backstay can be any impedance from tens of ohms to millions. It is basically a radio frequency transformer which has to be adjusted to the frequency and length of wire you are using. Manual ATUs have knobs and switches to perform this, smart ones do this automatically. I plan to install my ATU underneath the backstay in the lazarette, so it has to be automatic.
Hope that helps.
 
[ QUOTE ]
As far as legality goes, I hadnt considered the issue of type approval, I can understand the warranty side, especially if HW mods are made. Hmmm, well I will just have to undo the mods when within the Juristiction of an ITU member state ;-)

[/ QUOTE ]

Here you go this'll help http://www.itu.int/cgi-bin/htsh/mm/scripts/mm.list?_search=ITUstates

Mike
 
Thanks for this - when retirement comes in about 3 years, we'll be sailing off into the wide blue, and so been thinking about SSB. Unfortunately I am pretty ignorant on this and have seen various reports that SSB is dying out and people are moving to Satphones. What's the general view on this?
 
Agree entirely, in fact as you know (probably) I have been banging away at this issue on this forum for a couple of years.
There are some great flaws in the legislation at least with regard to amateur gear.
If I (for instance) build myself an amateur transmitter,which hams are actively encouraged to do in the course of "self training", It will probably be capable of out of band transmission. Amateurs are taught the frequencies on which they can transmit and are expected to uphold the band plan.
There is *nothing* to the best of my knowledge in the amateur rules and regulations that suggests that I cannot be in possession of a set that will also transmit on other frequencies. As an amateur it is assumed I am a responsible individual. The RAE has a habit of weeding out those who are not. The amateur service was never intended to be built around "black boxes", in fact 30 years ago I had all sorts of VFO controlled equipment that was capable of operation on all sorts of frequencies. Our club 2m rig would have been capable of operation on both Marine, and Police bands.
So on what basis is there any "type approval" for amateur radio equipment.??
It's not CB or PMR it's a technical hobby that actively encourages equipment modification and betterment.

I'm afraid the whole issue really gets up my nose.
I, as a qualified telecommunications engineer for 30 yrs, Radio amateur for 20 years, RAE instructor, with over 100 successful candidates,and former reserve forces signals instructor, have to pay £350 quid to have some RYA technically unqualified instructor spend three days trying to teach me what I already know.
Oh and the hotel bills on top because there are only a couple of places in the UK where they do the LRC.
I have no intention of running two SSB sets on my boat.
I will run my FT847 for amateur use and it is there also in case of a Marine Emergency.

If Ofcom want to have a pop at me then be my guest. I'll happilly present my qualifications to the magistrate, who will undoubtedly throw it out of court, if it ever gets there in the first place.

In this case the regulations are a complete ass.
Amateurs are examined to a far higher level than the LRC, and it's about time that someone recognized this and exempted us from the silly SRC and LRC.
These exams are designed for non-technical people...please realise this, and someone in the RYA/MCA act accordingly.!!

Steve g1fip
 
Hi steve, I must agree with your general thrust, i was building my own SSB rig some 30 years ago and felt quite competent on Radio theory and practice, felt miffed having to take extra exams for the boat , however there are two issues here, type approval and qualifications. I did the GOC, a two week course because I couldnt find anywhere in the NW of england running an LRC, Lairdside in Birkenhead do the GOC and although longer and more expensive, as I was an individual yachtie, they were very accomodating. It worked out cheaper than doing the LRC and paying for hotels. I was fortunate to have the time to take the course. However, despite my extesnive knowledge on Radio theory, propagation, etc I found I knew little about GMDSS on MF/HF, 'Protocols for for receiving a A1 DSC distress in an A3 area' for example. I'm glad I did the course and recommend it to anyone interested in understanding how MF/HF radio plays a part in safety at sea.
As far as type approval goes, I understand how equipment needs to be approved for each country as the UK VHF marine frequencies differ from the US, I think some US simplex channels are duplex here and vica-versa. You could easily get into problems using the wrong kit. type approval makes it easy to ensure the kit will do what it was intended and expected to do. However, the need to carry two Icom rigs to meet the law is plainly stupid, and no-one is going to ever do that. Presumably the manufacturers prefer you to buy two rigs rather than one. I can't imagine it would require rocket science for Icom to make the 802 work, and be approved for Ham Use!
So I took my ham license, took my GOC in order to be competent on the radio, and the equipment manufacturers tell me I cant use one radio for both, or they wont support me, and the authorites ( or ex, sorry mike) tell me i will be acting outside of the law.
oh well, you can but try.
 
OK on the GOC, it's a good qualification to have.
I bet your instructors were either Graham Lees or Bill Williamson, both of whom I am accquainted with from years back from conferences etc.and from papers and publications they've written....it's a small world the radio one!

Really my point is that for Leisure craft ie non-compulsory fit, a qualified Radio Amateur, will have sufficient knowledge proven by examination to be able to operate a Channelised Marine radio, and also sufficient expertise to use a general Coverage TX/RX on Marine Frequencies.
The channels of operation can be learned easily without need for a course.
Propogation theory for instance is covered in far greater detail in the RAE than in the LRC, GMDSS/DSC is just based on Digital Selcall which most amateurs will be only too aware of, Navtex is just slow speed packet, which is also now covered in the RAE or advanced course as it's now called, most things in fact are covered apart from distress sending, and Inmarsat. which doesnt require a 3 day course.

Your GOC is a different animal, and really designed for serving ships officers, as a first step on the Marine radio ladder, or for those in other disciplines other than marine Comms who need to operate a compulsory fit radio.

As for type approval it's just a smokescreen.
Technically the only real difference between a Marine radio and Amateur is the channel synthesis and the fact that a Marine SSB has far less knobs to play with, based on the assumption that the unqualified persons cant mess things up with less knobs.
It's all a fallacy, you cant tell me that ICOM and Vertex (standard horizon/yeasu) and Trio-Kenwood completely redesign their gear for each application. You can find the same basic circuit boards in all their variants which are usually based on a single design, with the same basic performance spec whether it's Amateur, Marine or Land Mobile SSB. They are usually the same set with different EPROMS and some features enabled or disabled.
I spent quite some years repairing this type of gear and the similarities between models is striking.

Steve.
 
Mike

None of my radio gear has anytype approval, never has had any and never could have any.

Most of it dates back to pre Eu nonsense.

Surely you are not saying that I am breaking the law by using it.

Most modern transceivers have general coverage on receive and are easily modified for general coverage on transmit, often by no more technical intervention than operating a switch.

How can operating a built in switch void type approval or for that matter warranty.

Why is the switch built into the rig if not tobe operated?
 
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