SSB ATU - HAM AND MARINE?

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The idea that the RAE is an entirely technical exam isnt exactly true, part one of the "old" RAE dealt with operating procedures and practices, which was everything from phonetic alphabet to international comms procedures,

Steve.

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Steve

I think you missed the point.
The RAE teaches you HAM procedures not International Maritime procedures.
They are very different.

If memory serves it is not a huge part of the RAE teaching either..

Maybe with all the dumbing down of the RAE and other Ham exams it should be the other way round...if you hold a LRC you should be automatically be given your RAE.

What you think?

Regards
 
Jon,

I have already said in a previous post that there possibly should be a "conversion" course for an Amateur, but not 3 days and 350 quid which is what the going rate seems to be at the moment. Remember that a "ham" is going to be familiar with many of the procedures involved, they are not "Raw" users, they will have a good appreciation of frequency/wavelength, propogation, digital modes, etc etc.
Marine Comms are not that different from any other, whether amateur, commercial or miltary. Each has their own "idiosyncracies" but follow broadly a standard pattern. There are a couple of prowords that are different, and the exact structure of mayday messages/mayday relay messages, but one wouldnt say that they were very different from anything else. They all follow the same ITU principles laid down in the 1950's.
It seems to suit the marine world to keep some sort of false mystique about radio.
In actual fact as I'm sure you know, DSC and all the various components of GMDSS even including AIS, use techniques that were commonplace in amateur communications 20 to 25 years ago.

Anyway this thread is getting boring now, we are just repeating ourselves, obviously we are juxtaposed to a degree in this matter that is going to be difficult if not impossible to resolve.

Kind Regards

Steve.
 
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The RAE teaches you HAM procedures not International Maritime procedures.
They are very different.

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true. And a conversion course for hams would be a good way to get this dealt with efficiently. But I can see there is little enthusiasm for setting up a system for a hanful of people a year.

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Maybe with all the dumbing down of the RAE and other Ham exams it should be the other way round...if you hold a LRC you should be automatically be given your RAE.

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NO! Please! Stop! do not open that can of worms! /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif
 
Actually, joking aside, I can see the point, Jon.
I dont see why an LRC holder shouldnt automatically get a Foundation Level
licence, they are at about the same difficulty.
The whole point is that qualifications in a very closely related discipline should be transferrable, or at least counted toward another qualification. They are in the wider educational world.
The rules and regulations in this country are interpreted so pedantically to the umpteenth decimal place, that it leaves no room for any flexibilty or amendments whatsoever. It is our own undoing in this country. we should be more like the French, sign up to everything and do nothing.
I dont think anyone could disagree that the rules as they are about having to carry two radios, an amateur not being able to use a perfectly legal marine radio on perfectly legal amateur freqs even though the radio is perfectly capable of doing so, are completely and utterly Mad.
One final thought, instead of having the radio snippable for GCTX, why not design it so that there is another level before General coverage, that just opens up Amateur bands. This could be dealer enabled only on production of a valid RAE Certificate...surely this would satisfy the authorities? or even better have the radio electronically switchable between Marine and amateur with a code so that it could be either one or the other but not both at the same time.
There must be an easy simple and cheap way round this problem without it involving loads of costly R&D in this day and age.
This way you could market the radio into marine, amateur and land mobile sectors
without many changes...oh but of course you do that already...silly me.

Regards, and I really feel we should wind this up now...

Steve.
 
"Maybe with all the dumbing down of the RAE and other Ham exams it should be the other way round...if you hold a LRC you should be automatically be given your RAE.

What you think?"

Is this the official Icom view? Because if so I'll send a copy of this post to RSGB and see if I can't get it in my radio club's magazine.
 
It was clearly not posted as an official view from anyone.
More as an open question.

IMHO I agree with Steve, why not issue a fondation licence as part of the LRC. it makes great sense.
It would boost the number of Ham's in the UK.
It would also mean that mariners could legally use the Ham nets, well only if they have the right kit on board /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Regards
 
You're digging a bit of a hole here. Foundation licences can only be used at the address of the licence holder PEP 10 Watt. Intermediate can be used mobile and Advanced maritime mobile.

I think I'll pass it on to them anyway. You can't post as JonBrooks ICOM UK and then claim you don't speak for the company. You'd better brush up your knowledge of the licensing system too, in case someone accuses you of posting ill informed twaddle.
 
[ QUOTE ]
You're digging a bit of a hole here. Foundation licences can only be used at the address of the licence holder PEP 10 Watt. Intermediate can be used mobile and Advanced maritime mobile.

I think I'll pass it on to them anyway. You can't post as JonBrooks ICOM UK and then claim you don't speak for the company. You'd better brush up your knowledge of the licensing system too, in case someone accuses you of posting ill informed twaddle.

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OUCH!

I have never claimed to offer the correct advice when it comes to HAM, I will do my best, thats all anyone can ever do!

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/publication/ra_info/br68f/br68f.htm

Worth you looking at this link on the Ofcom website.
Clearly states you can indeed operate "mobile" with the foundation licence.

You can also use it on a vessel on inland water ways.

Whislt not 100% correct it would seem my post was nearer the facts than yours /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Would you like me to pass the hole digging spade your way? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

My comments were aimed to stimulate conversation in the spirt of this forum.

Please feel free to pass my comments onto the RSGB, I would be very interested in thier views.

Regards
 
Actually that's not a bad idea getting the RSGB involved.
Maybe they can sort this mess out with regard to licensing and RTTEE directive, with regard to dual use of equipment when at sea, on behalf of seagoing amateurs.

Might be worth a try.

Steve.
 
Mike, serious question from someone with no vested interest, to someone who should know. Given the changes Ofcom are making to deregulate various areas, is there a chance that this could be cleared up, and if no plans, who should people lobby with most chance of changes happening?
 
I think the real key is buried in my posts above Brendan.

Radios exist on the market for the rest of the world which are accepted as marine type approved and which are immediately capable of operation on the amateur MF/HF bands eg the IC-M802.

The rest of the world just seems to work on the basis that if these radios are competent enough from the emissions, etc point of view they will certainly meet any amateur type approval requirements except perhaps for the out of amateur band TX capabilty which does not seem to be an issue that any regard as important and either must be turning a blind eye or accepting the radios as such.

So from the radio point of view that is all that has to be achieved and the constraint is the EU requirement. The amateur/marine operator issues go away too - if you are both you can use the radio for both. If marine only certificate held, then can only use it for marine.

From the operator's examination point of view, as I see it, is all that has to happen to meet Steve's main gripe (with which I sympathise) is allow people to do the LRC examination without having done any coursework. It seems from some previous threads that this is possible already, at least for the SRC and maybe the same is already so for the LRC but nobody has explored it fully.

I, and I suspect Steve and others would be the same, when I did the equivalent examination here (many years ago now but I understand that one can still do this), found that I just had to swot up on procedure/working frequncies for an hour or two and roll up and do it. If that becomes possible then the amateur/marine operator issues go away I would have thought.

Where any of this cuts across the EU requirements, well all I can say is "Good Luck". On only two occasions have I worked with clients trying to get through EU directives (one case marine to put a line of production MoBo's onto the European market and the other was with respect to industrial pressure equipment) and in both cases we came to the conclusion "What a load of protective crap and hassle, the world is a big place still without the EU, lets forget it".

There is another solution - emigrate out of the EU /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John
 
I have kept this seperate from my last post as it is off at a tangent but is relevant to amateurs operating radios that are not amateur type approved.

As I understand it the international approach is that the issue of an amateur licence (as opposed to an operator's certificate) is to the amateur not the station. That is, if you are issued with the call ZL2XYZ (or G2XYZ) then you can go to any other operater's amateur station and you are entitled to use your own call while using that station and not that of the station's owner. This is what happens in practice - except in the case of special event stations or multiop contest stations).

This is in contrast to (all?) other services where the station itself is issued the licence and the callsign belongs to the station. So, for example, a ship or boat carries its own callsign and that must be what is used when operating its station in the maritime mobile service for which it is licenced and never the callsign of ones own boat instead (as we all know).

Putting those differences together it is at least a practice to which no one seems to be fussed about in most places (whether legal or not I do not know) is that amateurs frequently operate the equipment of non amateur stations that are capable of operating on the amateur bands but using their amateur callsign, of course, not that of the station (which really would be illegal). This is common practice in maritime mobile (as we know) and I have heard it frequently so in aeronautical mobile, both those being services that often have radios with general coverage or close to it TX capability.

I think it can be seen that this difference in where or with who the actual licence lies has some relevance to the amateur/marine joint operation matter.

John
 
A very good point John.
Absolutely correct, it is the person who is licensed for Amateur, not the equipment, premises, or anything else. The license moves with the person to whatever equipment or location (if mobile), otherwise if operating for any length of time at a temporary location then an alternative premises amendment must be notified.
Maybe we ought to keep our heads down before the grey suits type approve us too.

Steve.
 
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