Spring of Tarrent

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Frankenstein

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Hi can any body help me , I have bought this ageing soap star from Howards Way and I am trying to register it in Portugal but need proof that VAT has been paid or I face 22% on the market value .
Is there anyway that VAT was paid back in 1988. Thank you.
 
Congratulations. I have fond memories of my first boat, "Jump Too", an MG Spring. Amazingly accomplished boat for the size!

I'm sorry I don't know the answer to your question about VAT. Your boat will date from a time before digital records so I doubt that you will find it easy to show evidence of VAT payment. I was in a similar situation when selling a 1995 boat a few years ago. I questioned the dealer (who had sold the boat new to its first owner) and they confirmed VAT had been paid, but had no record of the original sales invoice. Amazingly, 15 years after selling the boat to me, the first owner was able to produce the documents I needed.

Spring of Tarrent may have a clear ownership history so it's always worth asking the original owner.
 
Frankenstein said:
Hi can any body help me , I have bought this ageing soap star from Howards Way and I am trying to register it in Portugal but need proof that VAT has been paid or I face 22% on the market value .
Is there anyway that VAT was paid back in 1988. Thank you.
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No chance of evidence of VAT payment. The only record is the original invoice from the builder to the first private owner - in this case it may not even have been the builder as it may well have been owned by a TV production company who will have claimed the VAT back and then charged VAT when it was sold to a private person. In theory the first owner should have kept the invoice and passed it on with the boat, but there has never been any legal obligation to do this in the UK and in those halcyon pre EU days nobody cared anyway.

Boat is not worth very much and I guess the Portuguese customs will accept a low value - try them with 5k so VAT not such a huge amount.
 
Ningaloo said:
Congratulations. I have fond memories of my first boat, "Jump Too", an MG Spring. Amazingly accomplished boat for the size!

I'm sorry I don't know the answer to your question about VAT. Your boat will date from a time before digital records so I doubt that you will find it easy to show evidence of VAT payment. I was in a similar situation when selling a 1995 boat a few years ago. I questioned the dealer (who had sold the boat new to its first owner) and they confirmed VAT had been paid, but had no record of the original sales invoice. Amazingly, 15 years after selling the boat to me, the first owner was able to produce the documents I needed.

Spring of Tarrent may have a clear ownership history so it's always worth asking the original owner.
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Thank you for your reply, I hope someone will indeed lead me to the first owner, but I think it's a long shot !! But since I seem to have a lot of time on my hands (can't even go sailing in case I give the fish C19. ) I might as well try.
 
Tranona said:
No chance of evidence of VAT payment. The only record is the original invoice from the builder to the first private owner - in this case it may not even have been the builder as it may well have been owned by a TV production company who will have claimed the VAT back and then charged VAT when it was sold to a private person. In theory the first owner should have kept the invoice and passed it on with the boat, but there has never been any legal obligation to do this in the UK and in those halcyon pre EU days nobody cared anyway.

Boat is not worth very much and I guess the Portuguese customs will accept a low value - try them with 5k so VAT not such a huge amount.
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Thank you very useful information .
 
Bob Fisher competed in the Scottish Series in her in about 1988, it was one of the years that we went over to Gourock for the feeder and I recall exchanging some banter as we passed Cloch lighthouse. I do not think he owned her, fairly sure he was sponsored perhaps by MG so suspect VAT may have been delayed. I will have a hunt through our racing archive and see if the list of entries reveals the owner.
 
Quandary said:
Bob Fisher competed in the Scottish Series in her in about 1988, it was one of the years that we went over to Gourock for the feeder and I recall exchanging some banter as we passed Cloch lighthouse. I do not think he owned her, fairly sure he was sponsored perhaps by MG so suspect VAT may have been delayed. I will have a hunt through our racing archive and see if the list of entries reveals the owner.
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Was that the night the sub went through the fleet just after midnight with their escorts moving boats out the way as required
I recall one of the springs going up the skipness shore under spinnaker with the mast end like a fly rod moe than one mast lost that year
 
Not sure Scottie, we had to go to Gourock to start most years because the points earned were much higher, we were probably round the other side of Arran by the time that happened. ( to be honest we only managed 8th in the light going of the feeder) Finished fourth overall which was not bad as we had to count a disq.

Spring of Tarrant (K100T) did indeed compete in 88. the owner is listed as Alan Poole and the yacht club CCC (Clyde Cruising Club) but I am sure that Bob F. was helming. she was competing in CHS 5, Brian Shaw won the class in a Laser 28, Spring of Tarrant was 7th, she retired in the windy race 3 along with seven others .
There were no less than 6 Spring 25s entered that year including Spring Magic a nd Spring Cabbage. It would have ben a tough class for them in a breezy year with a Dehler 343, two Hustler 32s, a First 325, a Toledo and a Puppeteer 330.
You might get some more info. from CCC. They have a list of boats with handicaps on line.
 
Quandary said:
Not sure Scottie, we had to go to Gourock to start most years because the points earned were much higher, we were probably round the other side of Arran by the time that happened. ( to be honest we only managed 8th in the light going of the feeder) Finished fourth overall which was not bad as we had to count a disq.

Spring of Tarrant (K100T) did indeed compete in 88. the owner is listed as Alan Poole and the yacht club CCC (Clyde Cruising Club) but I am sure that Bob F. was helming. she was competing in CHS 5, Brian Shaw won the class in a Laser 28, Spring of Tarrant was 7th, she retired in the windy race 3 along with seven others .
There were no less than 6 Spring 25s entered that year including Spring Magic a nd Spring Cabbage. It would have ben a tough class for them in a breezy year with a Dehler 343, two Hustler 32s, a First 325, a Toledo and a Puppeteer 330.
You might get some more info. from CCC. They have a list of boats with handicaps on line.
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Alan Poole ran MG yachts whilst they were building boats up the mountain at Greenock
 
I don’t remember whether I was working or playing that year I alternated between racing and mark laying for many years and it all blurs just a little as time goes on but don’t recall a series that I did not enjoy
The only way I could distinguish what I was doing was if had an official shirt (working) or not
 
Spring of Tarrant was the prototype, built in Lymington before the moulds went to Jaguar in Essex (and then on to Northshore in Chichester). She was Allan Poole's personal boat and I'm fairly sure was the exhibit at Southampton boat show in 1987. MG provided the BBC with her and many other of their (and owner's) boats for use in filming. Private owners got paid a few quid, MG didn't.

Originally fitted with an Isomat mast which failed at 15.3kts and was replaced with a Z-Spar. (That failure has no connection with the rest of the Spring mast problems btw. Those were repaired by Z-Spar on every single affected boat).
 
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scottie said:
Was that the night the sub went through the fleet just after midnight with their escorts moving boats out the way as required
I recall one of the springs going up the skipness shore under spinnaker with the mast end like a fly rod moe than one mast lost that year
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Pretty sure it was just one mast at the Tomatin. That boat was 'The Boss' and sailed by Brian and Pam Saffery-Cooper, on loan from a really nice guy in Hamble. Who didn't really mind because his original extrusion had a twist half way up and he got a shiny straight one in exchange.

The mast problem was primarily that the Z-Spar spreader socket had holes in to receive clevis pins for lower terminals, and an odd design meant that they'd added material to the back of the socket to beef it up. Unfortunately that meant that a fair-sized hole had to be milled in the mast to accept that lump. Not really where you want a hole, especc on a fractional bendy rig. Secondly, the lowers had been specced one size too small, and were letting the mast pump back and forth. As I said, the SofT failure wasn't connected, different mast and boat being steered in The Solent by a well-known Portuguese yacht designer, with a really nice guy from Hamble egging him on to see how fast it would go when nobody else had spinnakers up. I think there was one other Z-Spar failure, maybe two, but that was enough to cause a bit of a flap, and learned friends were consulted. Outcome being that all spreader sockets and tubes were replaced with a totally different arrangement.
 
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Frankenstein said:
Hi can any body help me , I have bought this ageing soap star from Howards Way and I am trying to register it in Portugal but need proof that VAT has been paid or I face 22% on the market value .
Is there anyway that VAT was paid back in 1988. Thank you.
Click to expand...
What has not been explored is why you want to register it in Portugal. There is no requirement to register it on their register rather than as a British ship, either the SSR if you are normally resident in the UK or on Part 1 if you qualify by being a UK citizen (others are also eligible). If you do qualify for Part 1 then it will be cheaper to get on that register and far less restrictive. Just the regular inspection for the Portuguese register will cost more than the tonnage survey and application for Part 1, never mind the restrictions they will place on where you can sail. Their are many UK registered boats in Portugal and they operate largely outside the local system, although in theory they are required to comply with some aspects of local safety regulations.

On the question of VAT. If the boat was in Portugal on 31/12/2020 then it is considered EU VAT paid - although you may have difficulty in convincing a keen local office this is the case. Suspect that the registration authorities will also require details of the boat like an HIN number and the RCD category plus CE certification of the engine which simply do not exist.

These are the kind of issues others in countries like Portugal, Spain, Greece that love their paperwork have identified when trying to register old (pre 1997) boats that were not originally sold and therefore registered when new in the country concerned.

So, perhaps you need to find out more before you take any action and particularly pay money out when you don't have any obligation to do so.
 
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