Spirit cooker

[Alfie168]

No, the risks are manageable, just as they are with inflammable liquid stoves. But, on balance, LPG is safer, which is why it's the choice of the majority of boatbuilders.

The number of boats that explode when LPG equipped, however few, give the lie to your first statement. I've never known an Origo equipped boat explode.... ever. You do not seem to understand the difference between a fire risk and an explosive risk. LPG cannot be safer therefore. I mean for heaven's sake why do people choose diesel power instead of petrol in marine applications. It's safety isn't it. Join the dots.

 

[Alfie168]

If you believe that alcohol stoves are so safe, why do you think virtually every production boat built in recent years has had a gas installation?

Convenience. First and last.

What has caused virtually 100 per cent of boat explosions in recent years ? It's the gas installation isn't it.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Why would you be doing it underway, anymore than you would be having a whisky at the helm.....or Changing gas bottles ?. Whisky being another flammable liquid you probably have on board. You do all that sort of thing before you get under way....or after you have anchored/ moored. It's not explosive like a gas air/mixture can easily be, and it's pretty safe anyway as long as you do not have anything lit nearby. Any excess evaporates quite quickly in practice.

I know you are trying to big it up, but in reality there are no circumstances whatsoever where an evaporative spirit stove is intrinsically more dangerous than a pressurised fuel stove. All fuels carry a risk of course so there is no such thing as a 100 per cent safe fuel.....but from a professional point of view an uncontrolled escape of pressurised gas is the really scary scenario as it can be ignited by the innocent flick of a switch. You won't get that with an Origo, no matter how determined you are with your switches.

I think that depends on the type of sailing you do. How long do these things last without refilling? My last sail was an hour under six days.

 

[Bru]

Of course not, but loads of fires. Which do you prefer, fires or explosions?

Fire every time. An explosion kills you dead there and then. A fire you can fight or flee

Furthermore you're still refusing to acknowledge the nature of a spirit fuel fire which is low heat and easily extinguished (if attacked properly)

Refilling by pouring a flammable liquid inside a boat underway is for the birds. Not on my boat, never.

Anybody who fills a spirit stove inside the boat is a damn fool, underway or not. The filing is done on deck and when you're stationary

 

[Bru]

I think that depends on the type of sailing you do. How long do these things last without refilling? My last sail was an hour under six days.

Depending on how much cooking and kettle boiling, you'd probably run both burners low or empty in that time

But refilling them on deck or in the cockpit (swilling any spillage down the cockpit drains with a bucket or two of seawater) is perfectly safe. And using the 1l bioethanol bottles avoids any spillage anyway. At worst i might have had to wipe the top of the canister with a bit of kitchen roll if i was careless

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Fire every time. An explosion kills you dead there and then. A fire you can fight or flee

Furthermore you're still refusing to acknowledge the nature of a spirit fuel fire which is low heat and easily extinguished (if attacked properly)



Anybody who fills a spirit stove inside the boat is a damn fool, underway or not. The filing is done on deck and when you're stationary

see my previous post.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Depending on how much cooking and kettle boiling, you'd probably run both burners low or empty in that time

But refilling them on deck or in the cockpit (swilling any spillage down the cockpit drains with a bucket or two of seawater) is perfectly safe. And using the 1l bioethanol bottles avoids any spillage anyway. At worst i might have had to wipe the top of the canister with a bit of kitchen roll if i was careless

is seawater less dense than meths?

 

[Bru]

is seawater less dense than meths?

No, meths will float on seawater

Doesn't mean you can't sluice it down the drains although if your drain exits are underwater best to fill the burner canister on deck

But don't sweat on this overly, it really is extremely low risk. The fuel is not particularly volatile and a small spillage will rapidly evaporate anyway especially on water where it will spread to a thickness of one molecule and promptly vanish

 

[Bru]

Aha. A bit of research into this US spirit stove issue

Turns out that the type(s) of spirit stove popular in the past in the US (and apparently Australia where the most popular brand was made) are pressurised burner stoves requiring pre-heating, often incorporating a grill and with a fuel tank which has to be filled in situ

That's a beast of an entirely different order to the Origo / Cookmate type stove. They are in no way comparable (and it seems they are no longer available).

This probably accounts for all the talk of flare ups etc as a preheated pressurized burner can be a tads excitable regardless of the fuel as anybody who has used Tilley lamps to any extent will know!

I can well imagine such a beast causing a fire on board as the fuel is vaporized under pressure and therefore burns significantly hotter with the potential, if it flares, too ignite adjacent flammable materials

 

[Alfie168]

see my previous post.

It was hardly a "killer comment". It's perfectly possible to refill an Origo canister under way without subjecting yourself or the vessel to significant risk, unless you are running the Cape Horn ferry service these days. You just take care.

 

[GHA]

Is there a handy link to causes of gas accidents on sailing boats so we can ensure our own installations are OK?

 

[Black Sheep]

No, the risks are manageable,

The number of boats that explode when LPG equipped, however few, give the lie to your first statement.

To be fair to pvb, these two statements aren't inconsistent.
The risks are manageable; they can be managed. But they aren't always managed appropriately, and that's where the problems occur.
If you know what you're doing, or can pay someone else who knows what they're doing, it is possible to install gas in a way which minimises the risks.
If you know what you're doing, or can pay someone else who knows what they're doing, it is possible to maintain the system on a regular basis, in a way which will reduce the risks.
If you know what you're doing, it is possible to operate the installation effectively in a low-risk manner.

But not everybody has the knowledge, understanding, skills and attention to detail to manage all that. I know I don't, so I choose not to use gas.

I have no problem with others, who do have the knowledge, understanding, skills and attention to detail, installing and using gas. Good for you - I envy your ovens and grills!

But I do object to those people coming on here and telling everyone that gas is safer than ethanol!

 

[Poignard]

I replaced my gas cooker with an Origo a few years ago and am quite happy with it.

It is gimbal mounted and I refill its fuel containers in the cockpit from bottles of alcool à brûler which are kept in what used to be the gas bottle locker.

The Origo fuel containers are filled with some kind of fabric 'wool' so there is no liquid sloshing about whem moving them from the cockpit to the cooker.

I don't see anything unduly dangerous about it.

If I did, it wouldn't be there!

 

[ronsurf]

An Origo stove and a Hawkins pressure cooker has to be one of the safest and most effective ways of cooking.

Also, the way an Origo is designed means you have to turn it off in order to open it in order to fill it. You mop up any spillage and you have you close it all again before you light it.

As for safe installation - How hard is that? Make sure it's screwed securely in place or the gimbals are secured with room to swing and that there's enough space to cook. Job done.

Gas? You need a qualified installer and realistically it should be checked every year. Mine had a gas cooker when I first bought it. For safety the gas bottle was outside of course. Before sleeping I used to turn it off at the bottle. Come a rainy morning the thought of getting out of bed to turn on the gas bottle then getting back in to actually cook rapidly lost its appeal.

It seems quite a few alcohol stove detractors have never used one, and some only have a vaguest idea of what they are. I understand the appeal of gas, I think it would be hard to sell a modern boat without a gas cooker as that's what people are used to cooking on at home. I guess that also means they are familiar with the risk and hazards of gas, where a spirit stove requires some understanding which is a bit more effort.

Is there a recognised and effective way of getting gas out of your bilges?

 

[pvb]

Is there a handy link to causes of gas accidents on sailing boats so we can ensure our own installations are OK?

Data seems hard to find. The Boat Safety Scheme publishes some UK data, the most recent seems to be for 2018. The majority of fires/explosions were on inland waterways. In 2018 there were 3 fatal accidents - one woman killed in a fire caused by a faulty solid fuel stove, one man killed in a fire/explosion of unknown cause, and another man killed in a fire/explosion which started in the petrol engine space after maintenance the day before. All three lived alone on their boats. Alcohol consumption was a factor in two of the cases.

Incident Data - Risks | Boat Safety Scheme | Go Boating - Stay Safe

 

[GHA]

Gas? You need a qualified installer

Do you?

 

[MarkCX]

Are Origo still being made? I’d love to replace my rather suspect gas installation with a spirit burner. If not, are there other suitable alternatives. Just need one or two burners.

 

[coveman]

Are Origo still being made? I’d love to replace my rather suspect gas installation with a spirit burner. If not, are there other suitable alternatives. Just need one or two burners.

I think Origo stopped producing them but they are available from this supplier in Germany. They look exactly the same although not called Origo and they do come up for sale on Ebay ( but usually make daft prices compared to new).
Spirit stove 3000

 

[MarkCX]

Thank you. I had noticed some of the prices on EBay!

 

[Beneteau381]

An Origo stove and a Hawkins pressure cooker has to be one of the safest and most effective ways of cooking.

Also, the way an Origo is designed means you have to turn it off in order to open it in order to fill it. You mop up any spillage and you have you close it all again before you light it.

As for safe installation - How hard is that? Make sure it's screwed securely in place or the gimbals are secured with room to swing and that there's enough space to cook. Job done.

Gas? You need a qualified installer and realistically it should be checked every year. Mine had a gas cooker when I first bought it. For safety the gas bottle was outside of course. Before sleeping I used to turn it off at the bottle. Come a rainy morning the thought of getting out of bed to turn on the gas bottle then getting back in to actually cook rapidly lost its appeal.

It seems quite a few alcohol stove detractors have never used one, and some only have a vaguest idea of what they are. I understand the appeal of gas, I think it would be hard to sell a modern boat without a gas cooker as that's what people are used to cooking on at home. I guess that also means they are familiar with the risk and hazards of gas, where a spirit stove requires some understanding which is a bit more effort.

Is there a recognised and effective way of getting gas out of your bilges?

You dont need a qualified installer on our type of boats, to remove gas in bilges, bucket and chuck it is one method. IIRC Calder mentioned this method in one of his books.