Spirit cooker

[zoidberg]

Gas is perfectly safe if it's properly installed and maintained.

That's a bold statement - a 'declaration of faith' and not of reality. The clear fact that gas can and DOES explode on boats is irrefutable evidence that 'perfectly' is wrong. It is 'conditionally' safe, IF and only IF there are no leaks - hidden or otherwise. IF there are, then explosion is a realand likely result.... and the RYA published a warning video showing exactly that, starring RYA Training Manager James Stevens.

No-one can guarantee 'properly installed and maintained'. No-one carries out a 'Gas Safe' inspection before every sailing trip. No-one can prevent burning gas being blown out briefly by the wind and then accumulating in dribbles in the bilge. At least one of those 'experienced and competent' sorts who gave reply #17 a thumbs-up has skippered a Services boat with responsibility for the others on board - as have I - where a gas explosion blew the stern off and with it the skipper's leg. There were plenty of safety systems there, including a long list of competent and cautious individuals in charge. Wasn't enough.

I've sailed on several boats where the gas system was inadequate - corroded regulator, cracks in flexible supply pipe, blocked gas locker leaking inboard, even one where a gas alarm sounded every time the electrics were switched on until the owner disconnected the alarm....

Gas is usually sufficiently safe for use - but sometimes it isn't. The consequences can be lethal.

 

[zoidberg]

You dont need a qualified installer on our type of boats, to remove gas in bilges, bucket and chuck it is one method. IIRC Calder mentioned this method in one of his books.

You might as well sprinkle it with Holy Water..... quicker and just as effective!

 

[GHA]

That's a bold statement - a 'declaration of faith' and not of reality. The clear fact that gas can and DOES explode on boats is irrefutable evidence that 'perfectly' is wrong. It is 'conditionally' safe, IF and only IF there are no leaks - hidden or otherwise.

Can you link to any reports of proper well maintained installations exploding?
Or any reports, seems very thin on the ground to learn from.

 

[ronsurf]

Can you link to any reports of proper well maintained installations exploding?
Or any reports, seems very thin on the ground to learn from.

I imagine there's not an awful lot of evidence left after a gas explosion.

Luckily not something I have to worry about.

 

[pvb]

No-one can guarantee 'properly installed and maintained'.

Basic checks are not rocket science, ie making sure flexible pipes are undamaged.

No-one can prevent burning gas being blown out briefly by the wind and then accumulating in dribbles in the bilge.

For many years, gas cookers have had flame failure devices fitted.

At least one of those 'experienced and competent' sorts who gave reply #17 a thumbs-up has skippered a Services boat with responsibility for the others on board - as have I - where a gas explosion blew the stern off and with it the skipper's leg. There were plenty of safety systems there, including a long list of competent and cautious individuals in charge. Wasn't enough.

Ah, the "Lord Trenchard" explosion, often quoted (for the simple reason that it's one of the very few gas explosions which have happened on boats). It was caused by incompetence. The gas bottle connection hadn't been tightened up properly. The gas bottle locker wasn't gas tight, even though the vessel had supposedly been inspected for coding. The procedure for testing the gas alarm system was flawed, it didn't test the sensors. The vessel management system was flawed, it didn't identify the fact that the gas installation was faulty. The procedure of using the bilge pump religiously every hour at sea to clear any gas was totally inadequate. Incompetence on a grand scale.

 

[GHA]

I imagine there's not an awful lot of evidence left after a gas explosion.

Luckily not something I have to worry about.

Where are all the reports if it's so dangerous? Just trying to get some real world data to get a handle on the actual risks & causes. Not easy.
What has come up from google is filling outboards with petrol has been the cause of many explosions. Getting back to the boat after a beer might well be the most dangerous of all, after driving to the boat. Lots of unhelpful kneejerk going on about a potentially dangerous fuel but no data from the real world to help sift through the noise of opinions.

 

[GHA]

- where a gas explosion blew the stern off and with it the skipper's leg. There were plenty of safety systems there, including a long list of competent and cautious individuals in charge. Wasn't enough.

If that's the Lord Trenchard then you haven't read the report, that boat was a gas installation shambles, a good example of exactly how not to do/maintain it. It wan't enough cos it was a mess.

 

[Black Sheep]

Incompetence on a grand scale.

That's quite an accusation. Who do you think was incompetent?

 

[pvb]

That's quite an accusation. Who do you think was incompetent?

Ultimately, the Joint Services Adventure Sail Training Centre, who operated the boat.

Read the MAIB report - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/547c717be5274a429000013b/lord_trenchard.pdf

Edit: The guy who lost his leg subsequently sued the MoD for negligence.

 

[coveman]

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[/QUOTE]

 

[coveman]

For those who use gas this may be helpful - Boats with gas | Boat Safety Scheme | Go Boating - Stay Safe

 

[GHA]

For those who use gas this may be helpful - Boats with gas | Boat Safety Scheme | Go Boating - Stay Safe

Ooops, fell at the first hurdle....

Don’t be tempted to refill standard LPG cylinders

 

[coveman]

Ooops, fell at the first hurdle....

Don’t be tempted to refill standard LPG cylinders

Naughty boy?!

 

[LittleSister]

The whole idea of spirit stoves is based on a misunderstanding.

It's supposed to be 'cooked your goose', not 'cooked your ghost'.

(I'll get my coat. . .)

 

[Praxinoscope]

The whole idea of spirit stoves is based on a misunderstanding.

It's supposed to be 'cooked your goose', not 'cooked your ghost'.

(I'll get my coat. . .)

Lots of requests for a Medium?

 

[thinwater]

... the need to pour inflammable liquid into it...

Pet peve. Inflammable is archaic English and is not accepted as a word in ISO or NFPA standards. A liquid may be flammable, combustible, or non-flammable. Inflammable, as a word, is sort of like irregardless.

Ethanol is flammable, not inflammable.


From ISO 13943, definitions:
3.230
DEPRECATED: inflammable

 

[thinwater]

Are Origo still being made? ...

No. The company was bought by Dometic some time ago, which discontinued the line several years ago due to low OEM sales volume.

The company still exists as a non-profit., but sales are entirely into the 3rd world, and the product line has changed to be more economical.
CleanCook

 

[pvb]

Pet peve. Inflammable is archaic English and is not accepted as a word in ISO or NFPA standards. A liquid may be flammable, combustible, or non-flammable. Inflammable, as a word, is sort of like irregardless.

Ethanol is flammable, not inflammable.


From ISO 13943, definitions:
3.230
DEPRECATED: inflammable

Yes, indeed, I meant "flammable" but typed "inflammable". Simple error, sorry for that.

 

[Rum Run]

Some years ago I made a spirit stove using two Trangia burners fitting into a stainless steel tray with pot holders welded in, the assembly swinging athwartships like the old gas hob it replaced. I use bioethanol from B&Q not meths.
The boat is pretty lively and I am normally singlehanded so it is not often used under way but it does the same job as any gas hob if a bit slower, and I don't need a rusting steel gas bottle which freezes up and stops working in the cold.
The sooting of the pan bottoms is a nuisance and probably unacceptable to more dainty persons than myself - it's a bugger to get off I find and spreads about easily. But then frying steak and onions in the cabin of a 22' boat promotes grease splatter anyway so it is all of a piece.
I have seen of people using those little cartridge burner contraptions and they make me wince.

 

[ghostlymoron]

Same reason every caravan and motor home has gas. It's ubiquitous, convenient and effective. The fuel (bottles) is readily available

Spirit stoves are slower to cook with (and especially to boil a kettle on), require more regular attention (e.g refuelling) and don't offer the option of an oven or a grill. The fuel has to be stocked up well in advance (unless you're in France or don't mind paying through the nose for DIY store meths)

And in a proper installation with a proper gas locker, properly installed pipework and a serviceable modern cooker, there's nothing exceptionally unsafe about gas either

However, on the rare occasions things do go wrong, gas kills people. I have never, ever, heard of a spirit stove killing anybody. Ever. (A consequent fire, allowed to get out of hand, might end in a fatality but it would be going some to get anywhere near that stage)

There's good arguments for and against spirit stoves but safety is most definitely not one of the "against" arguments!

What do French people use it for to make it worth stocking in supermarkets?