Spinnaker photo wanted

[agurney]

The technology may make it easier for anyone to take a reasonable photograph, in the same way as the introduction of word processors made it easier for anyone to write a novel, but it takes more than a decent camera to capture a good image.

Anyway, isn't photography a bit like the oldest profession: You've got it .. you sell it .. you've still got it?

 

[Seadog17]

I agree. But in the grand scheme of things the OP's post won't make a blind bit of difference. Technology is having a negative effect on an industry. That's nothing new. If you're in an affected industry all you can do is a) hang in there as long as possible, b) diversify or c) get out. The worst thing to do is try to fight a losing battle.

Common sense, but some will never see it and bitterness breeds.

 

[Lakesailor]

If the pictures are **** they won't be used.

Unfortunately that is not true. Look at ads these days and see some of the truly awful images being used.
People buy on price and are willing to accept absolute tripe if it's cheap.
That may be because the world is moving onwards and upwards, but not my world. I don't do stuff these days because people won't pay for the knowledge and craft. Yes you can get an amateur shot that fulfils all the requirements. That's because he may have been damn lucky.
But get and amateur down to take a specific shot on a specific day and see the difference in results. That's what being professional is about.

I did some shots of Class boats racing on Windermere on an awful cloudy, rainy and windy day. They were sharp and well composed and did the job.
The features editor came up to do the interviews on a lovely sunlit day and took some shots which were also used. They weren't (as he would accept) as sharp or as punchy.

 

[jimi]

Kicker looks a tad tight and outhaul could be eased a smidgeon

 

[Lakesailor]

Any tips for this guy?

 

[Rob_Webb]

I'm looking for a great photo of a colourful spinnaker flying
to use on the boards for my estate agency in return for a
fee to the photographer or donation to RNLI of, say £50?
Something bright that stands out against a blue back ground,
and preferably the whole sail either coming towards the photographer
or in clear profile (No nasty masts or crew in the way!)

If anyone can help I would be very grateful and your
photo would be plastered around the streets for all to see!

Thanks.

Hello mate!

This thread is hilarious, isn't it?

What a bunch of uptight, pompous git replies you've had, giving you lectures, sob stories about poverty in the photography business, begging bowls, piss-poor analogies with other trades etc etc.

What an utter classic bunch of pompous, whinging poms most of you gits are. And before you check my profile and tag me as a kiwi note that I am a born & bred pom myself but I was fortunate enough to emmigrate from the land of greyness and misery just in time. So I am entitled to make such a judgement!

Anyway, no lecture from me on your request, Hayling. I understand that Plan A (commission a purpose-made photo) would cost too much - assuming you can find a UK photographer who can stop complaining long enough to take some photos.

So plan B is to opportunistically see if you can get a freebie here and make an offer of a donation to a good cause. And why not try? Good on you! At least you were up front and honest about your request.

I wish I could help better but I'll do my best. I'm no pro but as a hobbyist sailor and photographer I sometimes try to combine the two so here are 9 pics that I have to hand. Unfortunately they are mostly aerial views (taken from a friend's plane) so the angle might not work for you - although some cropping might help? But if you do like the look of any of them drop me a PM and I'll email you the full size pics - for free - and wish you luck.

Cheers

 

[GruffT]

Great pics Rob_Webb. Very nice. Hope you've got model release for all people featured in those if they're going to be used commercially. [Ducks for cover]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/14/mcdonalds-boat-advert

Edit : to fix link

 

[Blueboatman]

Great pics but the OP wants one from in front, IIRC. To give the colourful silhouette I imagine..
I would imagine the house details will be printed over and the subliminal message is the aspirational yachtin peering through. Good striking visual ID btw, the curves of a colourful spinnaker.

I wonder, as its a legit business expense, I wonder if the OP had offered 500 and organised a RIB through his local Hayling sailing club on a sunny race day...?

 

[dylanwinter]

very interesting - I apologise

Great pics Rob_Webb. Very nice. Hope you've got model release for all people featured in those if they're going to be used commercially. [Ducks for cover]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/14/mcdonalds-boat-advert

Edit : to fix link

however, there was no legal bassis for the withdrawal of the advert

macdonalds did not fold until the story got into the media

so no need to get permission from anyone to film anything anytime - unless you are on private property or obstructing the public highway

the BBC has more or less given up with with permission sheets (blood chits)

I have never used them in radio - and have never used them for tv work. why would you? I told the person where I was from and I had a microphone in my hand.

I often record the explanation of what I am doing so if there is any gyp I send them the tape


as for angry photographers who have seen their art degraded and demoted

digits are here to stay

copyright is dead

I now give all my stuff away and the more I give away the more DVds I sell

nine went out yesterday in the UK and three in the States

It is not a massive income but it is a couple of tanks of petrol

the other thing to consider is that even for camera operators the cost of their gear and of producing the images has fallen

the £3,000 panasonic pro camera I use on my boat is an amazing bit of kit that would have cost £200,000 a decade ago

it uses SD cards so I do not even have to buy tapes anymore

my main variable cost is disk space

at one time a good cameraman was using film was costing £100 for every ten minutes

a ten to one ratio of rushes to broadcast was the aim

now it is hundreds to one - keep the sucker rolling and eventually it will capture something

I am now giving frame grabs to PBO along with the words

I count my blessings that they are prepared to pay me for words

and if I earn £200 for a days filming from PBO or the local Windscreen wiper factory

- no mileage rate and turn up with a car with around £8,000 worth of gear in the boot

I can't see that flaming some poor old estate agent is going to help much

he was only asking

Dylan

 

[Hayling]

Well I have stirred up a hornets nest!
I only wanted a photo!
50 new boards will cost me £450 + Vat,
to spend much more than £50 on a photo would be uneconomic,
We currently use a photo of a hot air balloon for a bit of colour
(Very appropriate, you may think!), I just thought a spinnaker
would be nicer and someone might have one I could use.
I respect professional photos and have bought several over the years,
I have also done lots of things for people through my business
for people for free, cost or at my cost, what goes around, comes around.
And I know all about competition and business changing!
move with it, no one owes me a living.
Anyway, a couple of people have very kindly sent me photos and I hope
to sort something out with them.
Thank you everyone for your comments, for and against,
we are all a little older and wiser!

 

[Rob_Webb]

Great pics Rob_Webb. Very nice. Hope you've got model release for all people featured in those if they're going to be used commercially. [Ducks for cover]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/14/mcdonalds-boat-advert

Edit : to fix link

Hehehe! Nah, like I said I'm a hobbyist and don't use any of them commercially. So no releases relevant. Maybe if I was shooting more sensitive subjects (people in the street or kids) but not yachts from a distance.

The ways things work down here, most people are delighted to see their yacht appear somewhere - some of my better pics end up printed in either the NZ Herald or Boating NZ or else on a website somewhere relevant to the event e.g. Volvo Race. All I get in return is some emails asking me for the full-size versions for a print "for the boardroom" or "the kid's bedroom wall" etc. And it generates a steady stream of bottles of Mount Gay which keeps me and my crew happy.

And occassionally a great pic results in an invitation by a delighted owner to come out for a sail. Which in the case of the boat below (which used to be known in your hemisphere as Geant G3) will be a thrilling experience.

As someone else said, what goes around comes around... and all that.

 

[webcraft]

I have also done lots of things for people through my business
for people for free, cost or at my cost, what goes around, comes around.

Hayling, I totally agree - I help lots of people for nothing on that principle.

Did you check out Dreamstime? Some excellent pix there for a few quid. I use them a lot, wouldn't dream of asking any of the primadonnas on here for a freebie.

Dylan, great post. Rob Webb, great pix. The rest of you, blah!



- W

 

[Lakesailor]

What a bunch of uptight, pompous git replies you've had, giving you lectures, sob stories about poverty in the photography business, begging bowls, piss-poor analogies with other trades etc etc.

What an utter classic bunch of pompous, whinging poms most of you gits are. And before you check my profile and tag me as a kiwi note that I am a born & bred pom myself but I was fortunate enough to emmigrate

....and we were fortunate that you did.

 

[Solitaire]

Here's some!

That will do !

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I know a professional photographer who very carefully protects his copyright.

When he is doing studio shots he plays music which he has downloaded from the internet.

 

[pugwash]

WHAT A LOT OF ILL GRACE. Why shouldn't the man ask if somebody can help him out? You don't have to do it if you don't want to. I have been a full-time freelance writer/photographer for 50 years. I'd help if I could.

 

[photodog]

Hehehe! Nah, like I said I'm a hobbyist and don't use any of them commercially. So no releases relevant. Maybe if I was shooting more sensitive subjects (people in the street or kids) but not yachts from a distance.

The ways things work down here, most people are delighted to see their yacht appear somewhere - some of my better pics end up printed in either the NZ Herald or Boating NZ or else on a website somewhere relevant to the event e.g. Volvo Race. All I get in return is some emails asking me for the full-size versions for a print "for the boardroom" or "the kid's bedroom wall" etc. And it generates a steady stream of bottles of Mount Gay which keeps me and my crew happy.

And occassionally a great pic results in an invitation by a delighted owner to come out for a sail. Which in the case of the boat below (which used to be known in your hemisphere as Geant G3) will be a thrilling experience.

As someone else said, what goes around comes around... and all that.

Well as long as your happy letting some big company like APN use your ip to generate profit.. Substituting it for something which they might have had to pay a hundred bucks for instead.. Which would have gone into a small business in new Zealand, generated a bit of revenue to the treasury, and helped the economy in a tiny little way.. Then that's a good thing!

BTW APN made a profit in 2010 of just under NZD of 100 million...

If you had stuck oil in your garden.... Would you give it to Exxon for free?

Why are you giving it to APN?


The big media groups a laughing all the way to the bank... There sole purpose as a company is to exploit intellectual property... And now they have people like yourself giving it to them for free!

And here's the kicker... By doing so you actually hurt photography. You lower standards... Frankly.. The work you do is mediocre. Like the vast army of amateurs.. But this mediocre material is driving down prices and driving out of business people who had a dream to be able to do something they love for a living... And that means that some excellent photography is being lost... That skills that take years to perfect... Are lost..

In effect your ruining the very art that you profess to love.

Only a muppett gives the work to a big fat cat company that is quite happy to pay for it.

As for the op... i don't have to much of a issue... But I can see how snooks would... The growing rate I suspect for a stock image would probably be circa 100 quid or so for that use... At least he has been straight and askd... Its the idiot amateur snappers who simply don't understand that every time they give a picture to a company.. That company profits.. And some small business photographer... Probably someone young.. Loses.

 

[Rob_Webb]

Well as long as your happy letting some big company like APN use your ip to generate profit.. Substituting it for something which they might have had to pay a hundred bucks for instead.. Which would have gone into a small business in new Zealand, generated a bit of revenue to the treasury, and helped the economy in a tiny little way.. Then that's a good thing!

BTW APN made a profit in 2010 of just under NZD of 100 million...

If you had stuck oil in your garden.... Would you give it to Exxon for free?

Why are you giving it to APN?


The big media groups a laughing all the way to the bank... There sole purpose as a company is to exploit intellectual property... And now they have people like yourself giving it to them for free!

And here's the kicker... By doing so you actually hurt photography. You lower standards... Frankly.. The work you do is mediocre. Like the vast army of amateurs.. But this mediocre material is driving down prices and driving out of business people who had a dream to be able to do something they love for a living... And that means that some excellent photography is being lost... That skills that take years to perfect... Are lost..

In effect your ruining the very art that you profess to love.

Only a muppett gives the work to a big fat cat company that is quite happy to pay for it.

As for the op... i don't have to much of a issue... But I can see how snooks would... The growing rate I suspect for a stock image would probably be circa 100 quid or so for that use... At least he has been straight and askd... Its the idiot amateur snappers who simply don't understand that every time they give a picture to a company.. That company profits.. And some small business photographer... Probably someone young.. Loses.

For heaven's sake.

If pro photographers are threatened by me or any other amateur giving away a few pics here and there, then they need to take a fundamental look at themselves.

Like it or not, digitial photography has made it easier for non-professionals to afford decent equipment and create the odd acceptable pic which is publish-worthy.

Ignore that trend (and simply complain) at your peril. Otherwise, work out what this means for your business and respond accordingly. If your work/methods/approach are that good there should be no threat.

Next thing, you'll be accusing me of undermining the business of public transport services because I pick up a hitchhiker.

 

[webcraft]

And here's the kicker... By doing so you actually hurt photography. You lower standards... Frankly.. The work you do is mediocre. Like the vast army of amateurs.. But this mediocre material is driving down prices and driving out of business people who had a dream to be able to do something they love for a living... And that means that some excellent photography is being lost... That skills that take years to perfect... Are lost..

Oh ffs - get over yourself. I did not notice you wading in to defend professional web designers when Lovezoo et al were having a go at me. The market is changing, the technology is changing - adapt or go under.

growing rate I suspect for a stock image would probably be circa 100 quid or so for that use

Rubbish. Loads of good royalty-free spinnaker pics suitable for the OP's purpose on Dreamstime for under £10 for a hi-res image.

- W

 

[Lakesailor]

Two comments from people who I have so much regard for.



No. Just kidding.

It is the erosion of quality that has been the outcome of the digital revolution. Everyone can take a decent pic (given that they take 100 and a couple turn out, sort of, OK). They don't know why, or what they are attempting to achieve, or what the difference is between good and bad. The buyers are offered rubbish as well as top quality and because of the availability of digital publishing, the designers are untrained and not in a position to choose a good image.
So rubbish operators are using rubbish images to create rubbish publications.

To someone who can pull out the required image in one to two shots, despite adverse conditions, this means that the skills and experience suddenly count for nothing and they may as well go and get a job raking bunkers on the local golf course. One thing is for certain, there is no return in doing a top job anymore.
"That's the way the market is" you bleat. When the good images have run out or become time-expired, what will there be left?

Ask yourself why top nature and travel photographers can no longer earn a living.