epervier
Well-Known Member
Currently in employment?
Speeding Jetskis - police action - brilliant news
- Thread starter dylanwinter
- Start date
Currently in employment?
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
Oh goody, I'm warming to this. Yes, jetskies are quiet once they have gone but yots keep me awake all night with the constant clanging of the strings against the mast. But then, as one raggie I 'complained' to, told me, he can't hear it when he is tucked up in bed at home.
jenku
Well-Known Member
Relevance? An unemployed doctor is still a doctor, as is a carpenter. Professionalism is about training and attitude, not pay.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
I think that in any prosecution there is an element of warning to other potential malefactors.
If prosecuting these speeders results in other drivers operating their jetskis and boats at reasonable or/and legal speeds, then there will have been accidents or potentially dangerous inconveniences prevented.
Here's a professional organisation's take on aspects of water safety. I was unaware of the 200 meter distance-off regulation.
http://www.rospa.com/leisuresafety/information/watersports_abroad.pdf
If prosecuting these speeders results in other drivers operating their jetskis and boats at reasonable or/and legal speeds, then there will have been accidents or potentially dangerous inconveniences prevented.
Here's a professional organisation's take on aspects of water safety. I was unaware of the 200 meter distance-off regulation.
http://www.rospa.com/leisuresafety/information/watersports_abroad.pdf
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toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
On Radio 4 from time to time so I'd guess quite a successful reporter. I hope we might see KTL on TV in some form soon! Mind you, he's not always brilliant - I heard him do a slot on mushrooms or something last year - god that was dull! I'd rather listen to PWCs!
I feel like Judas!
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
blimey this getting personal!
steady on chaps I have a job - otherwise I couldn't afford to carry on sailing and it would only take me a summer to get around the UK as opposed to the four or more years it might take. I spent last winter in New Zealand making a film about sheep. Now that really was work.
as for chilling out when people drive at dangerous speeds through moorings - I am sure you would not chill out if people were speeding along the road oustide your house. I don't see the difference
so what if they cause an accident - chill out - let them break the law and endanger other people - fantastic attitude.
Say that to the parents of the kid killed by a jetski in Scotland this week. and how much police time will be involved in clearing up that incident.
I really don't think its a time to chill out.
as for use of police time - the boat caught speeding had a name on the side - and I understand that the jetski users are regular visitors to West Mersea.
The police getting involved with jetski users - the local police are having a major drive this coming weekend - they will be out along the Essex rivers with their own jetski and power boats trying to catch them
it seems a lot cheaper to use an "amateur video" lifted off you tube than to spend all that money on police time
excellent use of resources - they should be congratulated for being on the ball.
Dylan amateur sailor
steady on chaps I have a job - otherwise I couldn't afford to carry on sailing and it would only take me a summer to get around the UK as opposed to the four or more years it might take. I spent last winter in New Zealand making a film about sheep. Now that really was work.
as for chilling out when people drive at dangerous speeds through moorings - I am sure you would not chill out if people were speeding along the road oustide your house. I don't see the difference
so what if they cause an accident - chill out - let them break the law and endanger other people - fantastic attitude.
Say that to the parents of the kid killed by a jetski in Scotland this week. and how much police time will be involved in clearing up that incident.
I really don't think its a time to chill out.
as for use of police time - the boat caught speeding had a name on the side - and I understand that the jetski users are regular visitors to West Mersea.
The police getting involved with jetski users - the local police are having a major drive this coming weekend - they will be out along the Essex rivers with their own jetski and power boats trying to catch them
it seems a lot cheaper to use an "amateur video" lifted off you tube than to spend all that money on police time
excellent use of resources - they should be congratulated for being on the ball.
Dylan amateur sailor
RIB_imposter
Well-Known Member
well I doubt they were - the point being that before you hang them its best to let them justify it, PWC are used by a number of organisations for rescue work so its not totally infeasible - and its not unheard of for a PWC to monitor a VHF and go to the aid of a man over board, child adrift in an inflatable etc... ...they're not all evil you know!
Its a known problem - I'm not saying it excuses it but what it does do is explain why they will sit bang on the limit creating lots of wash rather than go at half the limit. I've not heard of the problem with 2 stroke bikes at tick over - perhaps different oil/cooling means they don't foul as much. However whilst I am not saying it excuses it - I would have some sympathy for a Jetskier who was genuinely concerned about this. That said if they regularly have to transit "slow" areas its probably time to upgrade to a 4 stroke. But the point was - let them have their say.
The expertise of the cameraman has little to do with it. The validity of the evidence has a lot to do with it. As a professional you will appreciate that there are ways to manipulate video to achieve an effect. To get a criminal conviction you need to show beyond reasonable doubt that an offence took place. Is there really the chain of custody required for that footage to prove beyond reasonable doubt that it hasn't been manipulated? What speed were they actually doing. You'll need to show, with calculations of the errors involved in any measurement that they were exceeding the speed limit (and probably by a reasonably margin, to allow for their reasonable ability to estimate their speed).
I know we have slightly tougher requirements for criminal evidence north of the border - but I would be surprised if a judge was willing to accept this as conclusive evidence of speeding and issue a £1000 fine, especially given the much tougher evidence requirements for speeding on the road with a £60 fine...
I didn't actually see and really dangerous behaviour - perhaps there was something out of shot that meant you had a different perception. Not convinced it was particularly inconsiderate either. Wreckless endangerment is a criminal offence - but if it were not for a local speed limit I don't think the police would be showing any interest. I guess the flipside would be "are there no limits to which sailors will go to victimise PWC users"? Oh and for your interest I don't consider myself a "petrol head"... I enjoy being afloat in most craft... although would be bored of a PWC after the first weekend.
[Edit - having rewatched the video it was perhaps a bit dangerous and inconsiderate - it seemed slower in the office this afternoon (**** internet speed?). - however the apparent "professional" camera work is all at funny angles and with changing zoom etc which makes estimating actual speed a bit tricky]
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dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
policemans details edited out
I asked his permission to post his message on his bulletin board
he is the man in charge of such things and is happy that as many local sailors know his details as possible
can we re-instate the mans details if he wants them to be there?
Dylan
I asked his permission to post his message on his bulletin board
he is the man in charge of such things and is happy that as many local sailors know his details as possible
can we re-instate the mans details if he wants them to be there?
Dylan
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drawkins
Well-Known Member
if these jet skis are the harmless little toys that some members seem to suggest why have so many areas banned them?
stick with it Dylan! really enjoy the videos.Mem -Sahib thinks it a great way to see the coast without the discomfort.
stick with it Dylan! really enjoy the videos.Mem -Sahib thinks it a great way to see the coast without the discomfort.
Georgio
Well-Known Member
I hope they find and prosecute the idiots very publicly, sending a clear message to other owners of PWC that may be equally inconsiderate. I'm not a PWC hater as I'm sure they are a lot of fun and can be a useful tool for emergency services but travelling at that speed so close to moored boats is just plain dangerous. Surely it wouldn't have been that had to find a safer location to have their fun.
Good on you Dylan, keep it up.
Good on you Dylan, keep it up.
epervier
Well-Known Member
Dylan, Sorry to have offended, it wasn't meant to be a personal attack, it was just a bit of humor, hence the wide green smilie in the title bar.
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
The policemans contact details are in the public domain
he wants east coast water users to know how to contact him
they are here
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Lofting_Simon_1261140265.aspx#
or perhaps I am not allowed to post a link that might lead to his details
he wants east coast water users to know how to contact him
they are here
http://www.zoominfo.com/people/Lofting_Simon_1261140265.aspx#
or perhaps I am not allowed to post a link that might lead to his details
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
You didn't answer me when I asked if there was a speed limit, so I looked up on the council's website.
"Don't Forget the Speed Limits on the River ~ A Speed limit exists throughout the entire River Blackwater which restricts the speed of all vessels to 8 knot within 250 metres of the shore. This byelaw also prevents access to the saltmarsh - oyster layings and other such habitats. Fines will be imposed."
Looking at the video I would say that the nearest shore was close to 250 metres, but probably more, but then my estimate carries no weight in court and neither does a video that carries no calibrated speed data. I agree they were probably going fast through the moorings but the police cannot prosecute on the back of a shaky video.
"Don't Forget the Speed Limits on the River ~ A Speed limit exists throughout the entire River Blackwater which restricts the speed of all vessels to 8 knot within 250 metres of the shore. This byelaw also prevents access to the saltmarsh - oyster layings and other such habitats. Fines will be imposed."
Looking at the video I would say that the nearest shore was close to 250 metres, but probably more, but then my estimate carries no weight in court and neither does a video that carries no calibrated speed data. I agree they were probably going fast through the moorings but the police cannot prosecute on the back of a shaky video.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
embedded (sometimes hidden) in every frame is a time signal, so given the known size of the jetski and then working out the distance it covers over any given time will produce a figure for speed. As the limit is 8 kts, any work which produces a figure of e.g. 20 kts is not going to be challengeable.
Additionally, frame rate is standardised for the various definitions, e.g. 60 or 50 frames per second. This too can be used to work out SOG.
Additionally, frame rate is standardised for the various definitions, e.g. 60 or 50 frames per second. This too can be used to work out SOG.
Greenwichman
Well-Known Member
CHIRP
Dylan - you might consider action under CHIRP. See: http://www.chirp.co.uk/
Meanwhile, do keep turning left!
Dylan - you might consider action under CHIRP. See: http://www.chirp.co.uk/
Meanwhile, do keep turning left!
Searush
Well-Known Member
lessons to be learned
I think we can all learn. Yotties to frap halliards, Mobos to minimise wash, especially close to moorings/ harbours. All PWC riders are not idiots, but those that are do taint everybody, so it is in ALL our interests to control the Richard Heads.
All basic stuff, not hard to understand, so why are we fighting?
I think we can all learn. Yotties to frap halliards, Mobos to minimise wash, especially close to moorings/ harbours. All PWC riders are not idiots, but those that are do taint everybody, so it is in ALL our interests to control the Richard Heads.
All basic stuff, not hard to understand, so why are we fighting?
dylanwinter
Well-Known Member
The arguments are being aired because again and again the petrol heads wade in to attempt to defend the indefensible.
Some brilliant justifications
1/ they are involved in an emergency rescue
2/ their plugs might clog up if they went slower and they make a bigger wash when they go slowly
3/They were not within a speed limit zone anyway (apparently)
4/The cameraman is an amateur so it doesn't count
5/This is an invasion of their privacy
6/yachtsmen should just chill out and put a bungee on their shrouds
7/this is a waste of police time
And another reason for the arguments
This is a wonderful space for debate - its one of the major functions of the board
Some brilliant justifications
1/ they are involved in an emergency rescue
2/ their plugs might clog up if they went slower and they make a bigger wash when they go slowly
3/They were not within a speed limit zone anyway (apparently)
4/The cameraman is an amateur so it doesn't count
5/This is an invasion of their privacy
6/yachtsmen should just chill out and put a bungee on their shrouds
7/this is a waste of police time
And another reason for the arguments
This is a wonderful space for debate - its one of the major functions of the board
Major Catastrophe
Well-Known Member
"3/They were not within a speed limit zone anyway (apparently)"
I've asked twice now. Were they within 250 metres of the shore as per the council website? http://www.westmersea.org/index.cfm/id/132 "A Speed limit exists throughout the entire River Blackwater which restricts the speed of all vessels to 8 knot within 250 metres of the shore."
I've asked twice now. Were they within 250 metres of the shore as per the council website? http://www.westmersea.org/index.cfm/id/132 "A Speed limit exists throughout the entire River Blackwater which restricts the speed of all vessels to 8 knot within 250 metres of the shore."
Elessar
Well-Known Member
As you have quoted me erroneously I need to correct you.
I did NOT try and justify the jetskier. I said him being prosecuted made me smile.
What I said was I am worried for my (future) privacy if we are all to be tried by you tube.
[2068]
...
You are asking a reasonable and logical question.
Unfortunately, as you own a motor boat, your reasonable and logical question will probably not be addressed, as you have been classified as a "petrol head". I had the same problem previously with the OP. If you hold your breath for any kind of sensible response, you will inevitably go blue and fall over.