Sparks question...

[Twister_Ken]

...answers please in words of one syllable or less.

My electrical knowledge just about amounts to changing a lightbulb or a 13amp plug, so in 'Dummy's Guide to Sparks" terms, please...

Indigo currently has two batteries charged by an alternator on the engine, all of which provides ample sparks for day sailing, given the motoring at either end of the day. I have no idea how the alternator is wired to the batteries, except that I have never noticed any mysterious electrical boxes with glowing valves, or whatever.

With a longer trip or two know becoming a possibility, I'm wondering about pushing some environmentally friendly sparks back into the batteries by using a small solar panel continuoulsy (or at least when the sun is shining) and a towed generator when sailing.

Presumably each of these devices has two wires coming out of them, hopefully red and black. To what should these be connected (direct to battery and if so which one) or to something else, and if something else, how is that connected to the batteries?

And currently (ba-boom) I have no dials or gauges to tell me how many sparks are left in one or both batteries. What is the best way to organise that, given my general electrical ineptitude?

PS - is this a DIY job, or something for overpaid professionals?

TIA.

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[vyv_cox]

Solar panels of less output than about 10 watts need no regulator. Above that you need something to control the current going to the batteries to protect them from overcharging and boiling dry. I have a <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.sunware.de/US/Products/Regulators/Regulators.htm>Fox</A> unit that has worked very well with my 38 watt panel. This has a facility to accept and regulate power coming from other sources such as wind and towed generators but they seem to have a maximum allowable current that is exceeded by some wind generators. I know nothing about towed ones, so cannot say.

My Fox unit is obsolete now but it copes with two separate battery banks, shows the voltage in both batteries and has LEDs to show me that it's gone dark outside so the panel is no longer charging.

My advice is to fit the biggest panel you can afford/fit and forget the generator. 38 Watts will easily cope with all loads except a refrigerator and running the engine for max about 1/2 hour per day will additionally cope with that. New flexible panels will take a surprising amount of curve to fit decks and output is now higher than mine which is six or seven years old.

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[tcm]

The solar power things come as a kit, with a box and wires and instructions, and look ugly. The wind generators make a right racket.

But do you need more charging of batteries? Or more power? You've never come on here with uh-oh more battery'lecky problems. You could if you must get another battery and wire this up in parallel with the others, with a thick wire, if there is space. I'd get a little man to do this cos batteries weigh a blimmin ton.

But probably I wouldn't bother. After all, you can rumble the engine for an hour even at sea. Just like you do now with the daysailing. And you've got the engine alternator as a charger already. So, you'd be wasting more environment by increasing demand for solar powered manufactured things having already got a perfectly working charger device in the form of an engine.

I should warn you that if you do get more battery stuff you will be triumphant about more lecky power. Then you will start using it, swmbos will turn up with hairdryers that need inverters, and then a generator, then more generators and you'll end up in a stupid mess dragging round a small power station er like I do.

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[bedouin]

I'm not convinced you could get a large-enough solar panel on a Twister to make a significant improvement while sailing in UK waters - although they can be good to top up the battery while on the mooring.

Small solar cells can be connected directly to the battery. All other devices (wind generators, towed generators & larger solar cells) come with (or require) a regulator - which should have simple connection instructions.

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[johnsomerhausen]

One thing you haven't mentioned in your original post is what your normal electricity consumption will be when youcruise. The automobile alternator does not work very well on a cruising boat, since auto batteeries are usually fully charged (except if you're leaving the lights, the heater and the radio on for a longtime with the engine shut off) whilst when cruising, you will use quite a bit of current at anchor. A solar panel can be useful if big enough; on my 29 footer, I have a 55 Amps Siemens with a Solsum 6.6 regulator which gives me about 15 Amps per day. It sits out of the way on the "pushpit". You could install one yourself and ask a techie to do the connections (should take him about one hour). The idea of adding a third battery depends on the capacity of your alternator; it should be about 25 % of the total battery capacity. If you hesitate about putting a solar panel on, you could install an Adverc "smart regulator" on your alternator which will pump a lot more current into your batteries. As far as checking the state of charge goes, a cheap didital multimeter cxan tell you the state of charge;
12.7 volts is fully charged, 12.2 volts is discharged (both readings at no load)

johnPS what ius a swombs ?

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[Twister_Ken]

SWMBO

She
Who
Must
Be
Obeyed

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[billmacfarlane]

Before you start adding bits and pieces like solar panels Ken, I'd check to see if you're using what you've got to maximum effect. It's fairly easy to check whether you've got an intelligent charger between your alternator and your batteries. Have a look in you're engine compartment and you'll recognise the alternator easily enough by the fact it's got a large belt round it. Trace the wires from it and see if they go direct to the batteries or via a device like a Sterling or Ardverc regulator. If you haven't got an intelligent charger I'd start by paying someone to get one installed. It's the easiest and most effective way of increasing your battery capacity and you'll be amazed at the difference it makes. Ardverc have an excellent web site and they're quite chatty on the phone as well.

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[Magic_Sailor]

Its easy

Speak to Barden UK (at Segensworth near Deacons!) they sell them and are very helpful.

Tel:01489 570770

Magic

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[Magic_Sailor]

70\'s electonic 2 hit wonder band.nm

.

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[Twister_Ken]

Understood on the smart regulator, but you've still got to run the engine to make the sparks, and I've only got a little diesel tank.

Indigo doesn't use much electricity, sailing instruments and nav lights mostly, and I don't want to weigh her down with extra electrics a la TCM. But I do quite fancy a longer trip or two, and like the idea of diesel-free sparks. How big a solar panel would it take to keep nav lights and instruments going 24hrs a day?

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[johnsomerhausen]

Thanks, Ken, I didn't realize you people were still living in Maggie's shadow....
john

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[Chris_Robb]

Ken - first of all get a cheap digital mulimeter. then:

1. Check the standing voltage of both batteries - 12.8
2. Start the engine and see what the voltage comes to on both batteries, It MUSt be inexcess of 14.00 and should ideally be nearer 14.3 14.4 volts to get a full charge.

If you only get 14 V - you will never achieve more than 70 percent charge - then get an adverc - they are very helpful, and you could probably fix it yourself. You will now be getting the most out of your existing set up.

NEXT: I made a big mistake and bought a Rutland wind generator - this made too much noise and boiled the batteries - Rutland couldn't get the regulator to work properly - so it was returned - SWMBO also hated it. Proceeds of refund invested in 100 amp altenator (from Adverc) Much better than that bloody noisy bag of nails. So if you only have a tiddly alternator - get a larger one.

When you have seen how this set up works, consider adding a Solar Panel. This year I bought from Barden a Solara SM120M Panel with regulator. I bought this not to keep pace with daily consumtion, but to charge when the boat is left on the mooring, so I feel happier about leaving the boat with part charged batteries.

I think you will find that in terms of bangs for bucks, the larger alternator and adverc regulator will be much more worthwhile fitting than Solar charging, which is really very expensive.

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[andy_wilson]

Solar panel(s) up to about 10% of battery capacity don't need regulating as the battery bank can take that all day, and won't get it for even part of the day in northern latitudes. A small one aimed (wired) just to the domestic battery would be a simple and econnomic proposition.

There are web resources that tell you optimum angles and effective % outputs for (instance) UK waters.

A smart charger is a smart buy, and if you are currently only getting a bout 70% charge into the batteries (with standard - direct wired alternator), it will have the same effect of fitting a third battery. Get one with a soft start-up as they can take a couple of hp from the motor when batteries are low and if I am correct in thinking that like me you have a small motor (mine's Volvo 2002 - 18hp when new) you will feel it. After a hard cold start or a long night at anchor (s'pecially early / late season with the diesel heater on) it takes my engine up to 10 seconds to pile the rev's on. Not a happy thought if the reason for starting the engine is an anchor dragging or other similar fast escaperequired!



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[tcm]

luddite speaks

ooh this is getting all worrisome and technical. If the diesel tank is little get a spare 10 gall tank of diesel or two. Bear in mind you need the diesel running to heat the water, and to check that the thing works, so there's no silent running option. Praps an uprated alternator and keep the other as a spare would make it all very safe and sorted and circumnavigatory.

I bet if I had a solar thing it would rain, then I'd tread on it. I would also run the engine, cos of course i would not actually believe that the solar thiong was working. Also, I'd need some hot water. So I may as well have not bought the solar thing.

Note that normal boaty who thinks electricity is easily the most magic thing in the universe has no clue of the multimeter tho i have got one and mostly is says 0.00 picofarads or ERR, but is still kept in the nice cardboard box, which i have bashed about a bit to make it look used, just in case a lecky man turns up and says "what -you haven't got a multimeter!!!"

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[colvic]

Agree with everything except the bit about the engine and just half an hour for the fridge. Longer trips and sunshine...going south? fridge has to work harder. Go the whole hog and fit a smart charging control unit such as an Adverc. And yes, it can be a DIY job, especially if I managed it!


Phil

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: luddite speaks

>Bear in mind you need the diesel running to heat the water,<

Err, no. We use a kettle to heat water!

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[zefender]

Re: luddite speaks

Ken, if you're thinking of going further afield and need lecky en route I think all these generating bits of kit would help. But I'm also very worried about the sanitary conditions on board given the reliance on a kettle. I trust you carry a spare. Instead of buying all this kit and spending hours getting anywhere, I'd be inclined to get a Bav - like everyone else!

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[vyv_cox]

An Adverc or similar kit must be rated as extremely valuable where battery storage is concerned. Anything that doubles (?) the current generated at the same engine revs and more or less the same fuel consumption must be worth having.

Although I agree that I am, as yet, not able to speak with experience about hotter climates, my statement is based on five or six years of extended summer cruises, bank holidays and weekends from North Wales to the Baltic. Believe it or not, some of these have been warm on occasions. Conversely, my refrigerator is a 15 year old Engels that probably consumes far more watts than a newer one would. After a couple of nights at anchor in sunshine my battery voltage will have dropped to somewhere around 12.1. or 12.2, whereupon I run the engine.

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[Twister_Ken]

Re: luddite speaks

Maybe I could tow a Bav along behind, as a sort of bathroom and generating station annex?

Regarding sanitation provision, we have belt-n-braces redundancy provision in that department. If the kettle breaks, we'll heat the water in a saucepan.

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[zefender]

Re: luddite speaks

Rsourceful as ever. Surely the kettle is electric though?
Nice idea about the tow, but make sure you put fenders across your transom!

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