South Pacific Windlass

[boatmike]

Good day Forum.
I have a horizontal windlass on my boat. Don't know the model no etc but its not working. I have determined that the relay is kaput but before I replace it I have a feeling the windlass is boogered anyway as with no power on it the gypsy freely rotates. Have not tried applying 12v direct to the terminals yet to see what happens but the question is Have you got one? is there some form of clutch between the motor and the gypsy that energises when under power or as i suspect something is busted? Surely the gypsy should not rotate freely when not powered?

 

[Boathook]

Mines got an electro type clutch / brake that locks the windlass and requires power to release it so it sounds like something is busted. If it is really freely turning it makes me wonder whether the gear box is busted.
Not the best of scans being a copy of a copy but hopefully the attached helps. Boat Gear Direct (BGD) are or used to be the 'agents' in the UK.

 

[boatmike]

Thanks for that Boathook. Makes sense that if mine is similar the brake may be jammed open.. Mine is horizontal rather than vertical but probably the same in principle. Tomorrow I will remove it and take it home for bench testing. All will be revealed! Certainly the control unit solenoids are knackered but I can get a cheap replacement for them. Does not have to be a South Pacific part.

 

[roaringgirl]

The solenoids normally just need to have the contacts cleaned.

Yes it does sound as if something is broken in the gearbox.

 

[boatmike]

The solenoids normally just need to have the contacts cleaned.

Yes it does sound as if something is broken in the gearbox.

No chance. The relays are not actuating with 12v applied direct. As for gearbox? Strip down tomorrow will determine. Not impressed with quality though. They may be cheap but no where near the standard of a Lofrans

 

[penfold]

The free rotation may just mean the clutch is released; is there a thing next to the gypsy that looks like a disc with holes in that would take a tommy bar or a giant three eared wingnut? Pictures would help.

 

[roaringgirl]

No chance. The relays are not actuating with 12v applied direct. As for gearbox?

To clarify, I mean the contacts _inside_ the solenoid box

 

[boatmike]

I have taken what you are calling the "solenoid box" apart. the sealed relays that actuate the main contacts do not actuate when 12v is applied directly. Either corroded and jammed or shorted out. That's no worry, I can get a new relay box complete for about £30. What worries me is the free rotation of the gypsy with no power. There is no external clutch as on a Lofrans. As boathook said there is apparently a normally on brake that is taken off when power is applied. So either this is knackered also or the gears are stripped or come loose as suggested. Either way its not an outstanding piece of Australian engineering. Give me a Lofrans every time! But we will see today when I strip it down for inspection.

 

[penfold]

Pictures would help.

 

[boatmike]

Mines got an electro type clutch / brake that locks the windlass and requires power to release it so it sounds like something is busted. If it is really freely turning it makes me wonder whether the gear box is busted.
Not the best of scans being a copy of a copy but hopefully the attached helps. Boat Gear Direct (BGD) are or used to be the 'agents' in the UK.

Well Mr Boathook. You were spot on! I stripped the beast and what a mess it was! You were correct that there is a solenoid operated brake on the motor and another solenoid that engages/disengages the gypsy shaft from the gearbox. The whole thing was totally full of corrosion and frankly anyone who designs such a thing should be ashamed, Windlasses sit on the foredeck of any boat and are continually doused in salt water. They should be designed accordingly. I have rebuilt Lofrans and others before and they are pretty good. This Australian rubbish is simply inadequate for the job. There is very little attempt at sealing the innards from the elements and the materials used are all mild steel and the micky mouse gear train would be more at home in a meccano set! The corrosion I dug out of it virtually filled an old saucepan and the motor had run and stripped the first gear in the train because the gears were seized. However, miracle of miracles the motor still runs!
BGD are no longer agents but Paul there is going to see if he has any spares that fit. So there is still a possibility of a rebuild although it's feeling like an audition for "The Repair Shop" on telly right now. So thanks for the advice but I just thought I would post this as a warning to anyone else considering South Pacific. I know they are cheap but they really are rubbish compared with other more expensive brands and should be avoided at all costs!

 

[Boathook]

@boatmike I think that my southpacific vertical windlass was value for money. I had gearbox problems but that was my fault for trying to get the anchor through the bow roller. The body of mine is stainless steel and gets quite a bit of saltwater on it. The company is now owned by a.n.other and made elsewhere when I last looked on their website.
Whether yours is an even earlier version than my vertical one and then improved I don't know. I did notice that they had altered the design of the vertical ones to a screw type gear.

 

[boatmike]

@boatmike I think that my southpacific vertical windlass was value for money. I had gearbox problems but that was my fault for trying to get the anchor through the bow roller. The body of mine is stainless steel and gets quite a bit of saltwater on it. The company is now owned by a.n.other and made elsewhere when I last looked on their website.
Whether yours is an even earlier version than my vertical one and then improved I don't know. I did notice that they had altered the design of the vertical ones to a screw type gear.

Yes I think what we have here are 2 different designs possibly made by two different companies. This "south pacific" company are Australian but I think they are simply import/export agents selling stuff out of China/South Korea/ Singapore etc although there is no way to be sure. My old windlass has all the hallmarks of a cheap Chinese knock off. It has no markings showing country of origin at all. Originally it had a stick on label but that has now long gone. The boat is 1990 so the windlass was probably original equipment. It is therefore quite possible that yours being a vertical type was made elsewhere. The horizontal ones offered on the market today do however look identical to mine so I would be very wary of them. Yours may be better but I would say, having no overload protection or external clutch like a Lofrans makes is very likely to break if overloaded like yours was. I guess ultimately you get what you pay for though. Lofrans are twice the price but incomparably better I think!
Edit...... I just looked on the SP website. It looks like they have recognised the overload problem and fitted what they are calling a "torque limiter" which looks like an external clutch mounted on the gypsy shaft. I think the rest of the unit from their description is pretty much the same as mine though. The vertical models are an entirely different design.

 

[Neeves]

I'm not defending SP but if your windlass dates from 1990 then it is now over 25 years old. If like many windlass it has been unloved (not serviced) in the 25 years of its life I'm really not surprised it has failed. Was there any oil in the gear box or was it lubricated with salt water and rust.

I get involved in many windlass stories just like yours, Pittwater yachts, and when I speak to owners about servicing - they look at me blankly. . I actually don't see many SP windlass but lots of Muirs - same story, no oil, seawater and iron oxide as a lubricant in the gearbox and the stainless bolts corroded into the aluminium castings (no Duralac).

Neglect (and ignorance) is a big issue - though whether a bit of love and attention would be beneficial for your model - no idea.

Jonathan

PS - When we replaced we invested in a Maxwell, best thing since sliced bread.

 

[boatmike]

Well I agree ignorance is an issue and you are obviously ignorant of the issue here. This windlass is completely impossible to service as it has no grease points, no oil filler and cannot be accessed without complete removal from the boat as the only way in is through an unsealed bottom plate that can only be removed when the windlass has been removed. When taken apart (not easy) the gear train is exposed eventually in a plastic cover packed with grease. You are obviously based in Australia and used to a different standard of build. I have never seen a "Muir" over here in Europe but from what you say they don't sound much better. Over here Lofrans is the gold standard and as a Chartered Mechanical Engineer (now retired) I have many years of experience and can tell you that its not uncommon to see windlass older than 25 years and still going strong. They certainly don't die of exposure like this one has. In fact the most common problems I have seen with them is through misuse rather than lack of maintenance, I started this thread to see if anyone could shed light on my problem and have generally had useful responses as is common on here.
Your response seems to be that I should have maintained it better and can't expect it to last any more than 25 years anyway.
As I have explained it is not built with maintenance in mind, In fact there is no maintenance possible. Any yes I do expect kit like this to last over 25 years if used properly so your contribution is not really helpful.

 

[Neeves]

Well I agree ignorance is an issue and you are obviously ignorant of the issue here. This windlass is completely impossible to service as it has no grease points, no oil filler and cannot be accessed without complete removal from the boat as the only way in is through an unsealed bottom plate that can only be removed when the windlass has been removed. When taken apart (not easy) the gear train is exposed eventually in a plastic cover packed with grease. You are obviously based in Australia and used to a different standard of build. I have never seen a "Muir" over here in Europe but from what you say they don't sound much better. Over here Lofrans is the gold standard and as a Chartered Mechanical Engineer (now retired) I have many years of experience and can tell you that its not uncommon to see windlass older than 25 years and still going strong. They certainly don't die of exposure like this one has. In fact the most common problems I have seen with them is through misuse rather than lack of maintenance, I started this thread to see if anyone could shed light on my problem and have generally had useful responses as is common on here.
Your response seems to be that I should have maintained it better and can't expect it to last any more than 25 years anyway.
As I have explained it is not built with maintenance in mind, In fact there is no maintenance possible. Any yes I do expect kit like this to last over 25 years if used properly so your contribution is not really helpful.

I was not suggesting you had not maintained it - but it might have been possible that a previous owner had not maintained it. However the fact you seem to have just discovered how to access the service components of the windlass in order to service it suggests you have not owned it for long and the damage may have been caused earlier.

Most windlass are not installed with servicing in mind. They seem to be installed by the original yacht builder or the commissioning organisation and ease of fitment is the priority. Servicing is not helped when the location is the tiny space left when all the accomodation is squeezed in. It is not unusual when servicing to remove the complete device - which is when judicious use of Duralac is helpful if not essential.

Servicing is usually straight forward, even if it does mean removing the windlass, check the oil in the gear box and clean and grease the shaft.

I've seen them installed with the fall of the chain rubbing the motor casing. I've seen them installed with no use of Duralac. No wonder they can have a short lifespan.

Muir windlass are fine (and still made in Australia) but like most mechanical devices constantly exposed to seawater do respond to a bit of love and attention, once a year. Our Maxwell has a simple bayonet fitting - simply loosen a locking ring, twist and the whole assembly can be removed (subsequent to disconnecting the cables). Its so much easier to work on when on deck rather than hanging head first in the confines of the locker.

But ask on here how often people service their windlass - you will be surprised at the answers - commonly..... never. But they still last for decades.

Good luck.

Jonathan