Some advice regarding RYA courses, if possible.

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Absolutely agree with the last part. However the observation I have made before is: whenever we do one of these "how do we learn to sail" threads, there's always the same set of great advice. Sail dinghies, sail with lots of different people and on different boats, read this book, do that course, try some racing, join a club etc.

The only bit that people dispute "no benefit in that" is the dinghy bit and it always seems a bit silly. Sure you don't HAVE to do it and you can master yachting skills without it (and it can be wet, etc) but it can also be fun and get you to those skills much faster and more cheaply.

The point is that if you want it get good at something, you need to do it lots of times. After just a short afternoon's dinghy sailing you can have done more tacks than most of us do in a whole season, and without annoying your cruising guests.

Of course, tacking a yacht in a force 3 in flat water isn't that hard, and maybe some might consider is sufficient skill, but what about tacking in big waves, or without a jib, or in a hurry, or when conspicuously overpowered, or efficiently so as to make minimal loss against the tide), or in light airs, or reach-to-reach? Sure, you can develop those skills as a yachtie, but any halfway competent dinghy sailor already has them in his pocket.

Also, if you have mastery of a skill (vs competence in easy conditions) you may be better equipped to supervise and coach others.

Quite right. Getting an engineless boat from Roaringwater Bay back to Baltimore through The Sound, or worse, the Gascanane, against a foul tide, will sharpen up anyone's tacking skills.?

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Absolutely agree with the last part. However the observation I have made before is: whenever we do one of these "how do we learn to sail" threads, there's always the same set of great advice. Sail dinghies, sail with lots of different people and on different boats, read this book, do that course, try some racing, join a club etc.

The only bit that people dispute "no benefit in that" is the dinghy bit and it always seems a bit silly. Sure you don't HAVE to do it and you can master yachting skills without it (and it can be wet, etc) but it can also be fun and get you to those skills much faster and more cheaply.

The point is that if you want it get good at something, you need to do it lots of times. After just a short afternoon's dinghy sailing you can have done more tacks than most of us do in a whole season, and without annoying your cruising guests.

Of course, tacking a yacht in a force 3 in flat water isn't that hard, and maybe some might consider is sufficient skill, but what about tacking in big waves, or without a jib, or in a hurry, or when conspicuously overpowered, or efficiently so as to make minimal loss against the tide), or in light airs, or reach-to-reach? Sure, you can develop those skills as a yachtie, but any halfway competent dinghy sailor already has them in his pocket.

Also, if you have mastery of a skill (vs competence in easy conditions) you may be better equipped to supervise and coach others.

I'm ambivalent about the benefits of dinghy sailing; I think it can cut two ways. I came via the dinghy sailing route, and I certainly never got wet or cold, unless it came on to rain while I was out! And that's probably true of most people of my sort of age who learnt to sail as a child; you avoided capsizing or getting wet because you were going to be cold and wet all day if you did; few people wore wet or dry suits in those days! Safety boats weren't prevalent, either, so in some situations there was a very real danger if you capsized. But I agree that it does teach an awareness of the interaction between wind and sail that you won't get as easily in other modes of sailing.

However, although that's the route I came by, in parallel I sailed "big boats" with my mother, father and brother. And that taught me different but equally necessary skills - navigation, and the very different requirements of sailing a larger boat at sea. It also taught the skill of interacting with and reacting to the sea itself - if it's rough enough to need that, it's probably too rough for most dinghies (Wayfarers and such excepted!)

I'd certainly accept that learning to sail a dinghy helps. My wife never did that and she has far less intuitive "feel" for the boat. But necessary? I'm not so sure, because sailing a yacht is so different to sailing a dinghy. A dinghy reacts instantly; a yacht takes time; a dinghy sails over the water, a yacht sails in the water, a dinghy has to be balanced continually; a yacht won't even notice if you move from one side to the other except for the smallest ones. I'd say they are different but complementary skills.

 

[[70521]]

Absolutely agree with the last part. However the observation I have made before is: whenever we do one of these "how do we learn to sail" threads, there's always the same set of great advice. Sail dinghies, sail with lots of different people and on different boats, read this book, do that course, try some racing, join a club etc.

The only bit that people dispute "no benefit in that" is the dinghy bit and it always seems a bit silly. Sure you don't HAVE to do it and you can master yachting skills without it (and it can be wet, etc) but it can also be fun and get you to those skills much faster and more cheaply.

The point is that if you want it get good at something, you need to do it lots of times. After just a short afternoon's dinghy sailing you can have done more tacks than most of us do in a whole season, and without annoying your cruising gguests

We agree on many points there. I always have a day or two at the start of the season out with a instructor pal who puts me through the mill, other days that are just for training where 20 - 30 tacks and gybes are done but suspect that I am in the minority.

I could have done more in a dingy but that was not for me.

 

[Babylon]

Of course the acid test when helming and trimming sails on a yacht is this: can you do it blindfolded, relying just on your other senses - of feel, sound, balance of the boat, etc? If not, then a spell in a dinghy will make sure you can!

 

[dulls]

Welcome to the forum.

The CC course sounds like the ideal place for you to start. I recommend that you buy the accompanying book "Competent Crew Skills", available as a paperback or an ebook.

products | Shop | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

Another good publication, well worth buying, is the "Yachtmaster Scheme Syllabus & Logbook". These two books should help dispel any myths.

products | Shop | RYA - Royal Yachting Association

I qualified as a sailing instructor three years ago after taking early retirement from a 40+ year engineering career. I don't do it full time, I only do it for enjoyment so I'm not as experienced as some of the career-instructor-posters on here.

A fair number of people go straight to the Day Skipper course claiming to already have experience. It is sometimes, not always, evident that such candidates don't always have a good grounding in the basics. The CC course should give you a very good grounding in the basics of sailing.

Another of my observations is that it's also immediately obvious if a candidate has dinghy sailing experience.

Best of luck, I hope that you enjoy all of your RYA courses

That is good advice.

 

[jac]

The point i feel many are missing is that the OP is doing a DS anyway - albeit on a mobo. therefore he/she will cover a lot of the syllabus - the only bit missing will be how to actually make a boat go where you want it using wind alone and what the various controls do.

I'm 100% in the dinghy camp for that - the feedback is quick, making it simple to learn what everything does. That rarely happens on a yacht. Also there are no distractions such as wind instruments - you have to learn to sail by feel.

Sailing a dinghy often involves getting wet - launching and recovery for example but nothing major. My kids seem to enjoy capsizing as it's nothing significant but certainly helps to develop wind / boat awareness. but Go sail something like an Argo or a Wayfarer and i think you have to physically try to capsize them. Even one is really averse to getting wet then learn to sail in a keelboat which i think is a good halfway house - you get to feel the wind but have the benefit of being effectively un capsizable.

I would also endorse some fun racing as a way to improve, ideally in a simnple 1 design class where skill is all. again - at club level it should be a simple matter to see what others are doing that you're not which will help massively in terms of getting the basics right and avoiding the typical cruiser issue of very badly trimmed sails, 110 degree tacking angles and people getting to their destination despite their sailing skills, not because of it.