Soltron vs Diesel Bug Sediments - any good?

[Refueler]

Nope - we can still use red.

For how much longer ... that's the question.

I was involved with RYA and CA regarding the differences of diesels. This stopped about 5 years ago as UK was appearing to be losing its battle.

 

[Refueler]

It might work. It did for me, but I had easier access.

Electric pump with a pick up hose into tank, extract diesel via a filter into oil drums. Pump out once through filter, then reverse and spray cleaner diesel back into tank. Repeat ad nauseam.

PITA .... but worth it in the end ... reduction of the crud is the main action so that the additive can work as best as possible.

 

[ChromeDome]

Lengthy article about the subject:
12 of the best diesel bug fuel additives tested - Practical Boat Owner

 

[Refueler]

Lengthy article about the subject:
12 of the best diesel bug fuel additives tested - Practical Boat Owner

The article is reasonable but ..............

The tests used are actually not standard ......... 'grown culture test' is the usual test and takes time, results expressed in CFU/ml ... which they obviously do not have.

Second - I take serious issue with :

"Up to 7% FAME can be mixed with road diesel, but even this is enough that some adverse effects are being seen. One of the worst is the cold filter plugging point (CFPP), the lowest temperature at which fuel will pass through a specific filter. For non-bio diesel this is between -7°C and -14°C, but for FAME mixtures it can be as high as 1°C – bad news for winter sailing. At present none of the additives in EN590 DERV – the fuel supplied to garage forecourts – address this. "

1. Standard untreated plain Diesel is -5°C to -8°C ... not -14°C. Average -7°C
2. Fame is added according the desired spec ... B3 = 3% ... B5 = 5% ... etc. It has been subject of changes due to lack of supply volumes where such as EU were pushing for B12 and higher. But the result on diesel unless of sufficiently high % does not create a +1°C product. That is a misleading statement.
3. Diesel with FAME in has been successfully treated since its first days to ensure winter specs .... in fact it was not uncommon to bring CFPP to lower than -16°C in accordance with Winter specs for retail use.

Lower than -16°C did introduce some headaches - but they were there before FAME. It was not unusual to treat diesel to get from -7°C to -16°C - then hit with slightly different formula additive to get the -21°C called for in some areas.
Diesel supplied for Polar regions / Alaska etc. - is mostly or even in extreme completely Kerosine

 

[ChromeDome]

The article is reasonable but ..............

I was referring to article only and neither can nor will defend the scientific / textual content.

I suggest you send your comments to the author.

 

[boatmike]

Hate to disagree with many on here but I had a very grossly contaminated couple of tanks in a twin diesel Mobo once and Soltron was no help at all. It is true that its supposed to break down the sediment so that it passes through the filters but in this case there was so much crud in the bottom of the tanks that I don't believe any biological or chemical treatment would have helped. Mild contamination perhaps but serious sediment over an inch or so deep? No chance! In my case I could not reach it through the inspection hatch in the tank top so I emptied the tanks and cut a new hatch in the tank top big enough to vacuum out the worst and clean out the tank with rag by hand. In the end I had about half a bucket of solid waste out of 2 450litre tanks. And I do mean solid after draining off the residual liquid. It looked like a very clumpy white sand in the end. I took a sample of it in a jar and added clean diesel and soltron as an experiment. It did absolutely nothing! I was told that this is the residue left after the bug has eaten the hydrocarbon (bug poo in otherwords) plus dead bugs. Don't know if that's true but I do know that adding Soltron to it there was no way it would ever pass through a 20 micron primary filter let alone a 5 micron final filter on the engine. Sorry but I always now use preventative additives but don't believe serious sediment in the tank can be miraculously made to disappear chemically.

 

[Refueler]

I was referring to article only and neither can nor will defend the scientific / textual content.

I suggest you send your comments to the author.

What for ? That test was in 2011 ... worlds moved on a lot since then.

The hundreds of thousands of tonnes of Diesel I've treated before and after that article ... the sheer volume of additives I've controlled with my guys treating fuels ... the labs I owned which tested .....
Today I still get involved in blending.

I was being 'polite' about that article. Its articles like that misleading the public that perpetuate the myths of the subject.

Sorry it doesn't sit well in your court.

 

[Refueler]

Hate to disagree with many on here but I had a very grossly contaminated couple of tanks in a twin diesel Mobo once and Soltron was no help at all. It is true that its supposed to break down the sediment so that it passes through the filters but in this case there was so much crud in the bottom of the tanks that I don't believe any biological or chemical treatment would have helped. Mild contamination perhaps but serious sediment over an inch or so deep? No chance! In my case I could not reach it through the inspection hatch in the tank top so I emptied the tanks and cut a new hatch in the tank top big enough to vacuum out the worst and clean out the tank with rag by hand. In the end I had about half a bucket of solid waste out of 2 450litre tanks. And I do mean solid after draining off the residual liquid. It looked like a very clumpy white sand in the end. I took a sample of it in a jar and added clean diesel and soltron as an experiment. It did absolutely nothing! I was told that this is the residue left after the bug has eaten the hydrocarbon (bug poo in otherwords) plus dead bugs. Don't know if that's true but I do know that adding Soltron to it there was no way it would ever pass through a 20 micron primary filter let alone a 5 micron final filter on the engine. Sorry but I always now use preventative additives but don't believe serious sediment in the tank can be miraculously made to disappear chemically.

"very clumpy white sand " ?? Definitely NOT "residue left after the bug has eaten the hydrocarbon (bug poo in otherwords) plus dead bugs" ....

Whoever told you that is talking out of their b**********.

I am not surprised the additive failed. What you actually had in your tanks ?????? anybodys guess.

Bug crud is anything from light brown (when left to dry / clear) through to black. It actually takes a lot to 'dry' Bug crud ... as it forms a clogging Gel ...

The only time you see anything approaching white with regard to 'bugs' is when grown in the petri ... then you can get colonys in an off white through to darkish.

But I do agree with you that serious amount of crud in a tank would be difficult for the additive to remove on its own. It needs help ... and is why I advocate vacuuming out the crud / blowing air / fuel into tank to stir it up etc.
It may take a while to get the crud sufficiently down to a level that additive can work ... but I would consider cutting hatches etc. as a last resort ....

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Lengthy article about the subject:
12 of the best diesel bug fuel additives tested - Practical Boat Owner

Marine 16 comes out well on that review, and is readily available. I use it, and as far as I can tell, it does what it's supposed to.

 

[boatmike]

Well I have only been around diesels for about 60 years and I am an engineer not a chemist but I do know why the sediment was there. The previous owner drained the tanks completely and the boat was out of the water for 4 years so the crap in the bottom had completely solidified until new diesel was introduced which only became a problem when the boat was taken to sea and the motion stirred it all up. I said it was white. Probably not quite snowy white but if we are being pedantic probably I could agree light brown. Not a gel though as it had clearly dried out completely and went hard in the tank bottom. Your normal experience is almost certainly valid and I can see that when diesel is present at all it would form a sludge or gel. I have indeed seen this often too so I know what you mean. In that situation there will almost certainly be a certain amount of live bacteria with hydrocarbon to feed on. If that dries out though and the bugs die the problem is not live culture any more its what remains. Its like granular layer of gritty sand. There was so much of it that I cannot see that it was introduced into the tank by any other means than what I was told by a petrochemical engineer friend who worked at Fawley refinery. While he explained the bio-chemical reaction to me in technical language what it came down to was when live the consumption of complex hydro-carbons by the bacteria produces a solid waste which he likened to yeast feeding on sugars in beer or wine making. In the early stages of fermentation solid waste is formed that falls to the bottom of the vat or container. When all the sugar has been consumed and turned into alcohol the yeast dies and that falls to the bottom too. The process inside a diesel tank is similar. Hence simplifying, its part bug poo and part dead bug. All of which is academic and immaterial. The question is how does the OP get back to a clean tank? There are only two answers. If its light contamination and in suspension in the fuel its possible that with sufficient agitation and continual re-circulating filtration (fuel polishing) he might stand a chance. If its excessive though and has formed heavy contamination in the bottom of the tank he stands little chance of this working.

 

[boatmike]

Marine 16 comes out well on that review, and is readily available. I use it, and as far as I can tell, it does what it's supposed to.

yes it does and I use it myself but its a preventive measure not a cure. It is good to stop your fuel becoming contaminated but it wont remove heavy contamination once formed.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

yes it does and I use it myself but its a preventive measure not a cure. It is good to stop your fuel becoming contaminated but it wont remove heavy contamination once formed.

Isn't there a treatment and a maintenance version? I'm a bit hazy, but I recall that it comes in several incarnations.

 

[boatmike]

Isn't there a treatment and a maintenance version? I'm a bit hazy, but I recall that it comes in several incarnations.

Dunno you might be right. I recall however that the instructions say use a heavier concentration if you suspect you have a contaminated tank but I am not sure. I only use it as a preventive which I believe it was designed as.

 

[Refueler]

Well I have only been around diesels for about 60 years and I am an engineer not a chemist but I do know why the sediment was there. The previous owner drained the tanks completely and the boat was out of the water for 4 years so the crap in the bottom had completely solidified until new diesel was introduced which only became a problem when the boat was taken to sea and the motion stirred it all up. I said it was white. Probably not quite snowy white but if we are being pedantic probably I could agree light brown. Not a gel though as it had clearly dried out completely and went hard in the tank bottom. Your normal experience is almost certainly valid and I can see that when diesel is present at all it would form a sludge or gel. I have indeed seen this often too so I know what you mean. In that situation there will almost certainly be a certain amount of live bacteria with hydrocarbon to feed on. If that dries out though and the bugs die the problem is not live culture any more its what remains. Its like granular layer of gritty sand. There was so much of it that I cannot see that it was introduced into the tank by any other means than what I was told by a petrochemical engineer friend who worked at Fawley refinery. While he explained the bio-chemical reaction to me in technical language what it came down to was when live the consumption of complex hydro-carbons by the bacteria produces a solid waste which he likened to yeast feeding on sugars in beer or wine making. In the early stages of fermentation solid waste is formed that falls to the bottom of the vat or container. When all the sugar has been consumed and turned into alcohol the yeast dies and that falls to the bottom too. The process inside a diesel tank is similar. Hence simplifying, its part bug poo and part dead bug. All of which is academic and immaterial. The question is how does the OP get back to a clean tank? There are only two answers. If its light contamination and in suspension in the fuel its possible that with sufficient agitation and continual re-circulating filtration (fuel polishing) he might stand a chance. If its excessive though and has formed heavy contamination in the bottom of the tank he stands little chance of this working.

Thank you BM ...

Your post now shows why you could not use additive to clear it. The scenario is completely different to OP and most peoples. Their situations are with crud still in gel form usually and often not so volumous to prevent additive working.

Lets put this to bed > You can NEVER cure a tank unless you clean, eradicate all contaminants in and then never put fuel in again.
The moment you put fuel in - you are back with bugs ... the situation is to 'control it' ....

Fuel Polishing .... is no answer to cure ... all it does is filter ... the action needed is to remove the crud that blocks the system by breaking it down such it can be burnt in the engine, AIDED by removing as much crud from the tank and either settling or filtering the fuel that goes back in WITH decent dose of additive.

I've answered this so many times from the experience of Laboratory's I owned / ran, supplying and operating a vast range of Fuel Additives over many years, supplying fuels incl. all forms of GasOil / Diesel for EU, UK, African, USA, and other markets.

 

[DangerousPirate]

Isn't there a treatment and a maintenance version? I'm a bit hazy, but I recall that it comes in several incarnations.

I added M16 to my tank and to my filter fuel left over cup (everyone should get one for christmas) and it doesn't do anything to the bug crud. It kills the bacteria and keeps them from spreading, but it doesn't dissolve anything.
What you are thinking of is the lower maintenance dosing for regular tankrefills as a preventive measurement vs shock dose, if you got quite a bit of bug and need to stop the spread of it.

So, since I am waiting for my new pump (the older new pump didn't work when I wanted to pump out my tank, great timing) I will be able to test with soltron from tomorrow on. Parcel arrived this afternoon and I haven't picked it up yet, I will dump a little in there either way and I will do a few drops in my cup and see what it does there.

The cup is weird though. It went from mostly red with water at the bottom to pee yellow with a lot of crud in the water over time. Don't wanna know what it's like inside the tank.

 

[dunedin]

mmmmmm not quite.

Enzyme based - designed to break down the sludge from dead bio and also its excretions - small enough that it passes through filters and system to burn off in the engine.
The only time it stops at filters - is if the amount of crud is more than additive can handle and fuel has been stirred up in passage etc.

Again - I shall remind that not all bug depends on Water interface ....

Very helpful, refueler.

So in simple terms, how do Startron, Fuel Set and Marine 16 compare in terms of approach?

 

[Refueler]

Very helpful, refueler.

So in simple terms, how do Startron, Fuel Set and Marine 16 compare in terms of approach?

I will not be drawn into comparisons .. sorry. I have to err to to the side of commercial NDA ...

What I will say is that careful reading of Labelling is usually sufficient to determine use as to it breaking down the crud or not.