Solent coastguard - muppetry at its finest

[wonky]

300kts?
Thought you worked at a rural aerodrome

Vhf regulations are the same.

The big difference is discrete frequencies used in aviation.

Phraseology and technique are (or should be the same). Marine VHF is much less neat as generally people have the time to waffle on. Not so in the london TMA at 300 knts

 

[volvopaul]

Since virtually every radio installed these days is DSC, learn to use the test call functionality and don't bother anybody.

Good call.

 

[oldgit]

It may be relevant to mention that the various VTS and coastguards have now to follow a fairly strict procedure regards emergency and safety calls in order to protect themselves from subsequent reprocussions if they do not do things correctly.
In our locality, staff were " moved",allegedly due to some legally required checks not being performed by staff.
They may not have even been aware it was part of their remit.They never the less still suffered the consequences.

 

[southseaian]

For what it's worth you seem to have one the other way

Pete

I think you are probably correct.

Operators do have to be trained on the job and although well supervised need to be allowed to 'have a go'
When a call for assistance is made there will always be a certain feeling of increased anticipation, a feeling of concern.
Monitoring a radio channel diligently for extended periods is not easy and requires concentration. The operator is waiting for 'that call'
Many people including many leisure boaters are extremely nervous when using the VHF to say ask for a berth. Imagine having to deal with a vessel with a problem for the first time with several people standing over your shoulder and a load of boating public waiting to hear your best.

In this instance it does not appear that lives where seriously at risk. A fairly minor incident easy solved by local help. In fact, I would suspect, excellent training for someone new to the job.

Lets not use expressions like 'muppetry at its finest'. If I did not know better i would think someone was trying to either insult or raise a cheap laugh.

 

[Mr Proach]

Vhf regulations are the same.

The big difference is discrete frequencies used in aviation.

Phraseology and technique are (or should be the same). Marine VHF is much less neat as generally people have the time to waffle on. Not so in the london TMA at 300 knts

300 in the TMA? You must get a lot of downwind vectors to 09L from LAM with nothing in front of you?

 

[henryf]

I'm trying to raise awareness of a significant deterioration in a service upon which I may one day have to rely on.

Say nothing and suffer the un-thinkable or raise awareness and let the powers that be know there are problems.

As for my choice of words I called it as I saw it. The sailor did everything right and was put under increased pressure by SCG. There was no intention to raise a cheap laugh I can assure you.

I wish there was a way to post up a recording of the incident for all to make their own minds up.

Henry

 

[southseaian]

My comments are merely observations whilst I'm out on the water. When you find yourself shouting at the radio asking why time is being wasted or why certain things haven't been done something is surely wrong.


cards on the table do you have any links to Solent Coast Guard, however slight ?

Henry

Do you mean that you were shouting on channel 16 during an incident?
If that's the case you should seriously consider if your input is actually helping anything or simply clogging up ch16.
I can't imagine anything less helpful than a load of boaters on their white chargers all heading at full speed towards an incident whilst telling the CG what to do.

Yes other boats can be helpful IF they are manned by skilled crew but in the Solent there are plenty of lifeboats crews just waiting to be called and more than willing to put their training to good use. .
I was in a situation some years ago on board a motor boat with a serious fire. The position was about a mile off Gilkicker, I made a PAN PAN call which was acknowledged by Solent CG. There was no life raft on board and I did not relish entering the water. I was informed they were launching Gosport Rescue and that a MOD police boat was also proceeding.
Whilst this was going a white charger in the form of a big shiny gin palace turned up but declined to come along side and take us off. Apparently he lacked the skills and was worried about damaging his boat. His total input, getting in the way of the rescue craft.

I am a retired CG Officer but never worked at Solent CG.

 

[Alan ashore]

I'm trying to raise awareness of a significant deterioration in a service upon which I may one day have to rely on.

Say nothing and suffer the un-thinkable or raise awareness and let the powers that be know there are problems.

As for my choice of words I called it as I saw it. The sailor did everything right and was put under increased pressure by SCG. There was no intention to raise a cheap laugh I can assure you.

I wish there was a way to post up a recording of the incident for all to make their own minds up.

Henry

I've been reflecting on the question of how to draw more attention to this deterioration since the transition commenced, but in a political climate where further deep cost cutting is being sought, I now fear that to do so might be counter productive. I mean, just supposing a popular tabloid newspaper were to get hold of a transcript of poor handling of a more serious incident, and just supposing that newspaper chose to risk prosecution by publishing, in a blaze of political headlines.
What happens? Some minister or other shouts loudly at some civil servants, who shout loudly at the poor folk trying to do their best with inadequate training and resources? Does anything get better as a result? Not sure.

 

[jimmy_the_builder]

Do you mean that you were shouting on channel 16 during an incident?
If that's the case you should seriously consider if your input is actually helping anything or simply clogging up ch16.
I can't imagine anything less helpful than a load of boaters on their white chargers all heading at full speed towards an incident whilst telling the CG what to do.

Yes other boats can be helpful IF they are manned by skilled crew but in the Solent there are plenty of lifeboats crews just waiting to be called and more than willing to put their training to good use. .
I was in a situation some years ago on board a motor boat with a serious fire. The position was about a mile off Gilkicker, I made a PAN PAN call which was acknowledged by Solent CG. There was no life raft on board and I did not relish entering the water. I was informed they were launching Gosport Rescue and that a MOD police boat was also proceeding.
Whilst this was going a white charger in the form of a big shiny gin palace turned up but declined to come along side and take us off. Apparently he lacked the skills and was worried about damaging his boat. His total input, getting in the way of the rescue craft.

I am a retired CG Officer but never worked at Solent CG.

Henry said shouting at, not shouting on. There is a difference.

 

[henryf]

Do you mean that you were shouting on channel 16 during an incident?
If that's the case you should seriously consider if your input is actually helping anything or simply clogging up ch16.
I can't imagine anything less helpful than a load of boaters on their white chargers all heading at full speed towards an incident whilst telling the CG what to do.

Yes other boats can be helpful IF they are manned by skilled crew but in the Solent there are plenty of lifeboats crews just waiting to be called and more than willing to put their training to good use. .
I was in a situation some years ago on board a motor boat with a serious fire. The position was about a mile off Gilkicker, I made a PAN PAN call which was acknowledged by Solent CG. There was no life raft on board and I did not relish entering the water. I was informed they were launching Gosport Rescue and that a MOD police boat was also proceeding.
Whilst this was going a white charger in the form of a big shiny gin palace turned up but declined to come along side and take us off. Apparently he lacked the skills and was worried about damaging his boat. His total input, getting in the way of the rescue craft.

I am a retired CG Officer but never worked at Solent CG.

No, I did not transmit on CH16. Although no one made a formal broadcast I was was aware it was radio silence for vessels not directly involved and to shout abuse on CH16 would be to hand over my VHF licence which I need.

As for your fire and the inference that we should avoid rushing to the scene on our white chargers... I shall heed your words and stay the hell out of the way in future. Of course it does mean that the chap on a small stand up jet ski lost in the Solent who we located and rescued might have drowned, but better that than being saved by "a Gin palace". The two yachts safely towed into port, two more where we stood by in case the people first on scene weren't powerful enough - they can drift around and take their chances from now on. It will free us up to enjoy our recreation time without the constant noise of CH16.

Your fire is an interesting one and something I have considered as a scenario before. We have been the medical boat for the Cowes Torquay race in the past and I've run it through my mind. It all depends on sea state and whether the casualty boat is likely to explode. GRP against GRP isn't ideal in rough seas. My initial thoughts would be the use of a throwing line to drag casualties onto our boat or possibly pop our rib off the back and use it to ferry casualties. We can easily deploy in less than 2 minutes. There's no point in having two casualty vessels to rescue.

But all this is immaterial as I shan't be rendering assistance from now on at the request of a retired CG Officer.

Not all weekend warriors in their gin palaces are equal. Some have more useful skills than others.


Henry

 

[southseaian]

Henry said shouting at, not shouting on. There is a difference.

Sorry if i misunderstood what he meant.

 

[prv]

I wish there was a way to post up a recording of the incident for all to make their own minds up.

Well, the posting part is easy - just stick it on Youtube as the soundtrack over a static picture.

To record it you obviously have to be rolling at the time, which really means all the time. Must admit I did consider setting something like that up last September when they were really bad. I live within their VHF coverage so an old radio hooked to the sound-card of a spare PC could sit there filling a circular buffer 24/7; I'm sure the necessary software is freely available.

Fundamentally I just couldn't be arsed

There's less point now since with a few months' practice they're less obviously terrible, just not as good as they were.

Pete

 

[prv]

I was informed they were launching Gosport Rescue and that a MOD police boat was also proceeding.

Have you noticed that the new boys don't usually think to inform the casualties of useful and encouraging things like that?

It's not the service that you left. We liked the service that you used to work for. We don't like the new one.

Pete

 

[southseaian]

As for your fire and the inference that we should avoid rushing to the scene on our white chargers... I shall heed your words and stay the hell out of the way in future. Of course it does mean that the chap on a small stand up jet ski lost in the Solent who we located and rescued might have drowned, but better that than being saved by "a Gin palace". The two yachts safely towed into port, two more where we stood by in case the people first on scene weren't powerful enough - they can drift around and take their chances from now on. It will free us up to enjoy our recreation time without the constant noise of CH16.

Your fire is an interesting one and something I have considered as a scenario before. We have been the medical boat for the Cowes Torquay race in the past and I've run it through my mind. It all depends on sea state and whether the casualty boat is likely to explode. GRP against GRP isn't ideal in rough seas. My initial thoughts would be the use of a throwing line to drag casualties onto our boat or possibly pop our rib off the back and use it to ferry casualties. We can easily deploy in less than 2 minutes. There's no point in having two casualty vessels to rescue.

But all this is immaterial as I shan't be rendering assistance from now on at the request of a retired CG Officer.

Not all weekend warriors in their gin palaces are equal. Some have more useful skills than others.


Henry

Please don't take the huff. I have no idea what sort of boat you have.
I fully acknowledge that many useful rescues are made by vessels near by, probably more than by the rescue services on a world wide scale.
You will know that many boaters don't have a clue. With modern liability laws all rescue services have to think hard before taking action or requesting assistance.
It's a sad fact of today that everyone can find themselves defending their actions in a court., even if well intentioned.

 

[pmagowan]

Please don't take the huff. I have no idea what sort of boat you have.
I fully acknowledge that many useful rescues are made by vessels near by, probably more than by the rescue services on a world wide scale.
You will know that many boaters don't have a clue. With modern liability laws all rescue services have to think hard before taking action or requesting assistance.
It's a sad fact of today that everyone can find themselves defending their actions in a court., even if well intentioned.

Private individuals are protected in a court when they try to render assistance even if that assistance turns out to be unhelpful. It is a 'good samaritan' situation and any reasonable attempt at aid can be given without risk of prosecution. This does not extend to professionals who can be held accountable for negligence.

 

[southseaian]

Have you noticed that the new boys don't usually think to inform the casualties of useful and encouraging things like that?

It's not the service that you left. We liked the service that you used to work for. We don't like the new one.

Pete

Thank you.
To be honest i don't listen to what Solent CG does or does not do. The last few years when on my own boat I don't switch the VHF on unless I want to call someone. If someone wants me to rescue them they would have to wave.
I recently have been using this forum again and felt there are a lot of negative posts and expressions like 'Solent coastguard - muppetry at its finest' that I find offensive.

 

[southseaian]

Private individuals are protected in a court when they try to render assistance even if that assistance turns out to be unhelpful. It is a 'good samaritan' situation and any reasonable attempt at aid can be given without risk of prosecution. This does not extend to professionals who can be held accountable for negligence.

Glad to hear that.
What is the situation if that private individual is asked to help by a professional?

For example the helping boat chops off someone foot due to bad handling.

Actually a friend of mine lost a lower leg whilst being 'rescued' on Lake Windermere. He was righting his dinghy at the time and had not asked for help.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Thank you.
The last few years when on my own boat I don't switch the VHF on unless I want to call someone. If someone wants me to rescue them they would have to wave.

When I did my VHF course many years ago I seem to recall that there was some sort of obligation to have your VHF turned on when at sea, providing of course that one was fitted. Am I mistaken?

 

[neale]

The last few years when on my own boat I don't switch the VHF on unless I want to call someone. If someone wants me to rescue them they would have to wave.

I find that very surprising coming from an ex coast guard proffesional. Good job we don't all do that otherwise those CG calls asking for assistance from nearby vessels would be pointless.

 

[henryf]

I also thought there was an obligation to maintain a listening watch on CH16