Solent coastguard - muppetry at its finest

[pmagowan]

Glad to hear that.
What is the situation if that private individual is asked to help by a professional?

For example the helping boat chops off someone foot due to bad handling.

Actually a friend of mine lost a lower leg whilst being 'rescued' on Lake Windermere. He was righting his dinghy at the time and had not asked for help.

The same. The private individual only has to do their best. For example, if a private individual finds someone uncouncious they can have a go at CPR. They might not know how to do it and they might make it worse but they are trying their best so they are protected. They have a duty to help. If I, as a doctor, do CPR and do it wrong I can get had up for it as I should know better and have a professional responsibility to know.

 

[pmagowan]

I also thought there was an obligation to maintain a listening watch on CH16

I don't think there is a legal obligation, even if there is a moral one, but IANAL.

 

[prv]

To be honest i don't listen to what Solent CG does or does not do. The last few years when on my own boat I don't switch the VHF on unless I want to call someone.

So does that mean you're actually unaware of the changes? It would explain your reaction. If posts like these had started appearing a year ago, when Solent Coastguard still existed, I would probably have posted similar things to you. The guys in their converted semi at Lee-on-Solent were a reassuring presence whom we would all support, and no doubt the same at Portland, Brixham, and everywhere else that's been closed. But they are not who we're talking about.

Pete

 

[maby]

I don't think there is a legal obligation, even if there is a moral one, but IANAL.

I think it comes down to a question of the legal interpretation of the ColReg which says:

"Every vessel shall at all times maintain a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate in the prevailing circumstances and conditions so as to make a full appraisal of the situation and of the risk of collision."

I have heard it argued that maintaining a listening watch on the local emergency channel is included in "... by all available means..."

 

[omega2]

"out" (END OF TRANSMISSION) "roger" (received your transmission) if you happen to be in the RAF!!!

SO CORRECT TO SAY "YOUR MESSAGE RECEIVED OUT" end of.

 

[sprocker]

"out" (END OF TRANSMISSION) "roger" (received your transmission) if you happen to be in the RAF!!!

SO CORRECT TO SAY "YOUR MESSAGE RECEIVED OUT" end of.

That is exactly what we were taught on our RYA VHF course a couple of years ago.

 

[henryf]

Let's not let this thread deteriorate into a debate on whether it's ok to say "roger". I'm not bemoaning petty radio procedure from SCG but fundamental operating procedures.

I also agree with the interpretation that should something go wrong and you weren't maintaining a listening watch on VHF it could well work against you. You regularly get hailed or alerted to situations via 16. Routine safety and weather info is alerted on 16 regularly as are commercial shipping movements.

I find it very hard to picture a former coastguard officer who wouldn't maintain a watch on 16 when out at sea.

Henry

 

[Dick Atcherley]

Thank you.
To be honest i don't listen to what Solent CG does or does not do. The last few years when on my own boat I don't switch the VHF on unless I want to call someone. If someone wants me to rescue them they would have to wave.
I recently have been using this forum again and felt there are a lot of negative posts and expressions like 'Solent coastguard - muppetry at its finest' that I find offensive.

I'm fascinated by the concept that you're prepared to blindly defend SC against the charge of "muppetry at it's finest" and yet, in the same breath, admit that you never have your radio switched on, so have no idea whether you are right or wrong? How very odd.

 

[MapisM]

I was in a situation some years ago on board a motor boat with a serious fire. The position was about a mile off Gilkicker, I made a PAN PAN call which was acknowledged by Solent CG. There was no life raft on board and I did not relish entering the water. I was informed they were launching Gosport Rescue and that a MOD police boat was also proceeding.
Whilst this was going a white charger in the form of a big shiny gin palace turned up but declined to come along side and take us off. Apparently he lacked the skills and was worried about damaging his boat. His total input, getting in the way of the rescue craft.

While generally speaking I have no sympathy for anyone who doesn't assist someone at sea for fear of damaging his boat, I find your description of the accident a bit inconsistent.
If you made a PAN-PAN, I assume you evaluated that the fire was controllable, even if you called it "serious".
Did the situation deteriorate in the meantime, hence making it necessary/appropriate to abandon the vessel?
If yes, I would think it's rather a Mayday situation, and if that's what you issued after the initial PAN-PAN, shame on the white charger crew for not at least trying to help.
But if no, I'm not sure to understand what you are accusing them of....

 

[NormanS]

Thank you.
To be honest i don't listen to what Solent CG does or does not do. The last few years when on my own boat I don't switch the VHF on unless I want to call someone. If someone wants me to rescue them they would have to wave.
I recently have been using this forum again and felt there are a lot of negative posts and expressions like 'Solent coastguard - muppetry at its finest' that I find offensive.

What a shockingly poor attitude to others. As a "retired coastguard officer" you will, I hope, realise that there are many forms of aid to others, which we with generally small boats can provide to our fellows. I happen to sail mainly in an area where official rescue assets are few and far between, and I'm sure that by us all keeping a look out, and a listening watch for others, many "rescues" take place, without the CG even being aware. Of course it may well be different in the Solent, but we look out for other mariners.

 

[maby]

What a shockingly poor attitude to others. As a "retired coastguard officer" you will, I hope, realise that there are many forms of aid to others, which we with generally small boats can provide to our fellows. I happen to sail mainly in an area where official rescue assets are few and far between, and I'm sure that by us all keeping a look out, and a listening watch for others, many "rescues" take place, without the CG even being aware. Of course it may well be different in the Solent, but we look out for other mariners.

In I quoted - which was real and recent - they needed eyes. They knew that there was a boat in trouble - serious enough to be close to sinking - but they didn't know where it was. The fact that is was rescued was entirely down to the all-ships call for lookouts all along the Solent and the reports they received of a flare being fired off.

 

[Andrew38]

Just speed read this thread from the beginning.

I must admit that currently being based in Sant Carles the almost total lack of traffic in Spain is slightly un-nerving; particularly on the long crossings to and from the Balearics.

It's a few years since I've been boating in the Solent so I'd hoped the incessant radio checks might have stopped. Additionally this year I had hoped that a lot of people might have switched to calling National Coastwatch on Ch65 for radio checks, if they prefer to speak to someone live rather than using the DSC test transmission. Additionally Coastwatch can give you a lot more info on current conditions that they can physically see from their vantage points.

 

[Elessar]

What amazes me are the amount of radio check dickheads wasting there time and rarely a please or a thanks after a report back , not on in my book. Pay a marine electronic company to test your signal once a year if your not sure how your set performs.

I just call the marina and tell them when I'm returning or not. Radio check done.....,

 

[Elessar]

What a shockingly poor attitude to others. As a "retired coastguard officer" you will, I hope, realise that there are many forms of aid to others, which we with generally small boats can provide to our fellows. I happen to sail mainly in an area where official rescue assets are few and far between, and I'm sure that by us all keeping a look out, and a listening watch for others, many "rescues" take place, without the CG even being aware. Of course it may well be different in the Solent, but we look out for other mariners.

Completely agree. Selfish and irresponsible not to monitor your Vhf.

Heard a boat close to the shore with a snagged pot mark just 2 weeks ago just off Torquay. Got to them quite quickly but I wouldn't have seen them they were around a headland.

It was by the way co ordinated well and professionally by solent CG which surprised me. (That it was solent that is)

I agree with henry though that some of them are being put on watch before they are competent to do so.

 

[Uricanejack]

I think you are probably correct.

Operators do have to be trained on the job and although well supervised need to be allowed to 'have a go'
When a call for assistance is made there will always be a certain feeling of increased anticipation, a feeling of concern.
Monitoring a radio channel diligently for extended periods is not easy and requires concentration. The operator is waiting for 'that call'
Many people including many leisure boaters are extremely nervous when using the VHF to say ask for a berth. Imagine having to deal with a vessel with a problem for the first time with several people standing over your shoulder and a load of boating public waiting to hear your best.

In this instance it does not appear that lives where seriously at risk. A fairly minor incident easy solved by local help. In fact, I would suspect, excellent training for someone new to the job.

Lets not use expressions like 'muppetry at its finest'. If I did not know better i would think someone was trying to either insult or raise a cheap laugh.

Tiss a good point. Some times it may be a trainee or rookie. as with L drivers a little bit of patience would be appropriate.