Sold a faulty engine

[KevinV]

All this talk of consumer rights is on shaky ground - the advert clearly states it's a "trade" sale - ie no warranty implied or given

 

[PaulRainbow]

All this talk of consumer rights is on shaky ground - the advert clearly states it's a "trade" sale - ie no warranty implied or given

That's actually illegal, they cannot deprive a consumer of their statutory rights. Small claims judges wouldn't have any of that nonsense.

 

[Poignard]

All this talk of consumer rights is on shaky ground - the advert clearly states it's a "trade" sale - ie no warranty implied or given

A trader can't avoid responsibility under consumer law simply by saying his customers are traders and not consumers.

 

[KevinV]

That's actually illegal, they cannot deprive a consumer of their statutory rights. Small claims judges wouldn't have any of that nonsense.

A trader can't avoid responsibility under consumer law simply by saying his customers are traders and not consumers.

You're both sensible people - I'll believe you

 

[Poignard]

You're both sensible people - I'll believe you

Don't come crying to me when all that stuff I sold you goes wrong.........

 

[KevinV]

Don't come crying to me when all that stuff I sold you goes wrong.........

Don’t worry - I assumed some damage when it fell off the lorry

 

[AntarcticPilot]

A trader can't avoid responsibility under consumer law simply by saying his customers are traders and not consumers.

That's actually illegal, they cannot deprive a consumer of their statutory rights. Small claims judges wouldn't have any of that nonsense.

That's my understanding too, and my late first wife worked in the Consumer Advice Centre of Southwark Trading Standards. Consumer rights are inalienable (clue in the word "rights"!). She had to do courses on the Law of Tort (way over my head!)

 

[Poignard]

Consumer Rights Act 2015. Part 1. Chapter 1. Section 2

Consumer Rights Act 2015

 

[Refueler]

I always assumed that 'Trade Sale' as in old cars .. was basically the trader off-loading a Part Ex clonker without any warranty .. that it was sold as seen.

 

[Tranona]

Really ?

The ad states ;

"Recently removed from a Moody 35 sailing yacht to make way for a larger Beta engine.

Starts and runs nicely and has been fully cleaned and resprayed ready to go back to work."

But you would accept no redress if it doesn't function ?

I think that particular engine and description has been on the site for some time - it was there when I was looking 3 years ago - it was on my list of possibles but when I got there it was sold. I followed their ads for some time and the same engines that were popular and would have sold easily stayed for months. However I saw a number of potentially good engines that had been cleaned up and serviced (oil and filters) then run on a test bed - just none that suited me. Their business model depends on either taking old engines in part exchange for new ones or buying from installers. Typically they pay between £500-1000 for the small under 40hp engines, spend a couple of hundred and sell for £2-3000. Of course not all the old ones are worth anything and are broken for spares. Many engines are changed for new because they are underpowered for the boat and can still have plenty of life in them.

My experience though is with the previous owner

 

[Tranona]

The transaction does seem to come within the scope of the CRA. However as has been pointed out in a number of posts it is not just a matter of writing to the court and asking for the money back. The CRA has a process that has to be followed first - for example giving the seller an opportunity to repair or replace - which is the stage the OP is at now. If that fails he will have to build a case, probably based on not meeting the description, fitness for purpose and the fault(s) being there from the start. The court will also want to see that efforts have been made to resolve the problem, for example through negotiation or mediation.

The court is the last resort and although the small claims track is easy and low cost the claim still has to meet the legal standard. From what the OP has said so far he seems to be a long way off having a well documented case.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I always assumed that 'Trade Sale' as in old cars .. was basically the trader off-loading a Part Ex clonker without any warranty .. that it was sold as seen.

That was a ploy by dodgy car dealers to fool customers into thinking they didn't have a warranty, it was always illegal.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

View attachment 201451

Consumer Rights Act 2015. Part 1. Chapter 1. Section 2

Consumer Rights Act 2015

I'm well covered, then - mapping Antarctica has to be outside any possible claimed trade!

 

[Ceirwan]

If that is the case, the whole premise of marine enterprises’ businesses has just been entirely irrevocably destroyed.

They are not advertising spares & repairs or scrap engines - their own home page states “Specialists in the supply of quality new and used marine diesel engines, generators, gearboxes and spares.”

The OP did not purchase what was sold as “spares” so has a fair and reasonable expectation of buying a quality used engine, not one that goes pop after a couple of uses.

Its a chance that businesses of this sort take.

Probably in 90% of cases or more, the engine would run reliably for a year or more & reasonably outside any chance of being returned.
And used car dealers, especially at the cheaper end take the same chance, same with the breakers who advertise engines online, chances are outside of seeing it running, they've done nothing at all to really check that the engine or parts are fine other than visual.

But in most cases they are and it works out, in the cases its not then (if they are a decent business) they'll just take the hit and refund the money or pay for the repair. In less good cases, they'll do what Marine Enterprises is doing here, ignore all calls, hope it goes away, in many cases its just not worth the hassle for the customer to pursue it.

 

[chriss999]

If the business ignores the customer’s attempts to get a resolution, it just strengthens the customer’s position in court. Not a good policy.

 

[Poignard]

I'm well covered, then - mapping Antarctica has to be outside any possible claimed trade!

That's an occupation the careers advisor at schoool never mentioned......

It would have been an interesting alternative to the usual north country offerings of the mill, the pit, and the armed forces!

 

[winch2]

Its 'Caveat Emptor' Im afraid if your going to do this type of thing yourself without advice. One simple question from someone in the know prior to buying would have revealed all. "Has the engine been stripped, cleaned re-bored, crank rebuilt with new bearings etc, new lift pump plus injectors fitted and brought up to spec with newexternal ancillary parts?
In my world, refurbished, rebuilt, reconditioned all means the same thing, that the unit has undergone major internal machine work and is effectively as good as new.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Its 'Caveat Emptor' Im afraid if your going to do this type of thing yourself without advice. One simple question from someone in the know prior to buying would have revealed all. "Has the engine been stripped, cleaned re-bored, crank rebuilt with new bearings etc, new lift pump plus injectors and brought up to spec with new ancillary parts?

Absolute nonsense, the ad clearly states this is not the case. Neither does it have to be the case, it was advertised as a good second hand engine, which turned out to be incorrect.

If it had all of that work done it would have cost more than a new engine !!

 

[AntarcticPilot]

That's an occupation the careers advisor at schoool never mentioned......

It would have been an interesting alternative to the usual north country offerings of the mill, the pit, and the armed forces!

Winter Holiday by Arthur Ransome had something to do with shaping my career!

But the stereotype you describe was certainly true of my father's generation; only WW2 allowed him to escape it.

 

[Poignard]

Winter Holiday by Arthur Ransome had something to do with shaping my career!

But the stereotype you describe was certainly true of my father's generation; only WW2 allowed him to escape it.

A book I've never heard of.

Another addition to my ever-growing 'To read' list!