Solar Arch

[rogerthebodger]

I was shocked at the costs quoted but cost all depends on the completability of the arch.

Both the ones I have made are quite lexicon with all kind of fiddly bits welded on.

Both mine are 2 simple goal post tubular with aa simple 90 degree bend and angled base plates welded to the feet to bolt to the aft deck with backing pads under the deck

The major constructs is th bracing needed to increase the rigidity and strength of the structure. The main bracing on both mine was the connection to the push pit.

I can climb on to mine from the cockpit or fron a ladder that can attach to the aft of the arch. Its this bracing and ldder fittings that make mine more complex but I do have the equipment and knowledge to make all these bits and to weld then on.

This is a PBO forum (Practical Boat Owner) and a DIY type of forum to help provide the OP different ideas to do what they wish

There are lots of various fittings like bends and clanps that can be used to reduce the special manufacturing equipment that is needed

Befor I made the solar arch I had 2 80 watt solar panels fitted to the aft side hand rails but found they would get in the way of mooring and boat operation. It was this that cause me to fit a solar arch and a secondary solar support frome over the cockpit which was attached to the forward end of the arch

 

[samfieldhouse]

Or a sprayhood.

That's exactly how I roll. On a 28fter there's minimal room and I think arches look hideous. I have 1x 100w semi-permanently on the sprayhood and 1 that's 'freelance' - it wither sits on the foredeck, the coach roof, the Bimini or on the guardrail.
It stows in the quarter berth when not in use.
The power increase available from being able to move the panel around should not be underestimated.

 

[Tranona]

I was shocked at the costs quoted but cost all depends on the completability of the arch.

Go back to post#1. The OP asked for recommendations for a company to fabricate and fit an arch to his boat. Although there have been suggestions, but not local to him, most of the posts are of no help to him at all. Not surprising he has disappeared.

Labour rates are £50+ for welders, and even in densely populated boating areas like where I live there are few people who will actually take on such a job because of the amount of hassle involved in designing, making and fitting a one-off. Sure you can make a simple arch just for solar out of mostly stock bits but you need to know what you are doing and few even experienced DTYers have the knowledge and skills to to this. On some boats it is relatively easy because you have the space and secure base to attach the arch, but the W33 is not one of those, partly because of the mizzen boom and partly because of the congested aft deck.

Remember the objective is to mount solar panels, and while on some boats an arch is a good solution there are other methods that might be a better compromise.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Go back to post#1. The OP asked for recommendations for a company to fabricate and fit an arch to his boat.

Labour rates are £50+ for welders, and even in densely populated boating areas like where I live there are few people who will actually take on such a job because of the amount of hassle involved in designing, making and fitting a one-off.

So the simple answer to the OP question is no there are few in the UK who would take on a one off job.

The is why it may be in the OP interest to look overseas for this kind of work.

 

[geem]

So the simple answer to the OP question is no there are few in the UK who would take on a one off job.

The is why it may be in the OP interest to look overseas for this kind of work.

It's more expensive over here and it's a long way to go

 

[Pete7]

Personally, all I want is to hold some <=50W solar panels in place. I'm happy to take them down for winter, or if a named storm is forecast.
Also I've found it would sometimes be nice to be able to rig some sort of bimini or shade the cockpit more easily than trying to rig a pub umbrella to the stanchion.
Again, no expectation of leaving that up when we're putting the third reef in.

What cheap and cheerfull solutions have people done and seen?
What other features are worth considering?

If you have a look at Sailing Cadoha on YT, you see in a recent video that they prepare for a storm coming through Devon and packing up their deck laid solar panels for use at anchor. Interestingly there is a short clip of their bimini / sprayhood panels being removed too. I believe they are held on with strong non corroding magnets through the acrylic material.

This would be an easy and cheap solution for you. I believe they still sail in fair conditions using the magnets to secure the extra panels on their bimini. They do have an arch as well with panels and the option to deploy panels vertically up the mast tracks, but this is big bucks, so perhaps stick with the panels on the bimini with magnets for now.

 

[Tranona]

So the simple answer to the OP question is no there are few in the UK who would take on a one off job.

The is why it may be in the OP interest to look overseas for this kind of work.

How totally impractical. For somebody owning a "project" boat in Lincolnshire to go abroad to find somebody cheaper is just a barmy idea!. The subcontractor needs access to the boat and experience in building arches. Such people exist. There used to be 3 in Poole where I live but one has just retired and one does mainly production work for boatbuilders. Even though there are about 10,000 boats within a 25 mile radius, I doubt that the number who would want an arch made runs into double figures each year. There are people who can do the job in the Solent, East coast, and SW (Plymouth, Dartmouth, Falmouth etc) where there are both high concentrations of boats and a thriving boatbuilding and repair industry. Lincolnshire is not like that!

 

[geem]

If you have a look at Sailing Cadoha on YT, you see in a recent video that they prepare for a storm coming through Devon and packing up their deck laid solar panels for use at anchor. Interestingly there is a short clip of their bimini / sprayhood panels being removed too. I believe they are held on with strong non corroding magnets through the acrylic material.

This would be an easy and cheap solution for you. I believe they still sail in fair conditions using the magnets to secure the extra panels on their bimini. They do have an arch as well with panels and the option to deploy panels vertically up the mast tracks, but this is big bucks, so perhaps stick with the panels on the bimini with magnets for now.

I tried magnets. Don't bother. The ones recommended to me simply are not strong enough. It would be easier to use the holes in the corners of most flexible panels to sew some tabs and clips. This is what we have now done and it's far superior

 

[rogerthebodger]

Google Stainless teel fabricators in Lincolnshire gave several results.

Clearly I have no idea of the costs and quality of their work but what I would do is to visit then and discuss the requirements and see if they are interested

If not tick then off the list

 

[B27]

We run 4x180w solar panels on the guardrails. Swap some guardwires to guardrails and you have a great mounting location. Super easy to fit 50w panels

My boat is quite small.
It's kept on a river where the best sun is from astern.
The moorings are quite closely spaced and panels on the guard rails would be quite vulnerable.
Often on UK South Coast visitor moorings, boats raft up.

I'd prefer a simple permanently mounted panel or two on an arch, which would double as a bimini support or cockpit shelter.
Currently, I have a panel hanging off the backstay.

I have had a few ideas which need refinement, (to put the best gloss on it).

I don't mind taking own the bigger panels for the winter etc, but when we're cruising on the boat, 50W panels are inconvenient things to have below decks.
If I can reliable generate 2 or 3 Amps while sailing, the demands on my battery become minimal, so there's a cost saving there which I'm happy to invest in a tidy convenient solution.

I will work some thing out that suits us, I'm just trying to avoid re-inventing the wheel. Especially the square wheel!

Stainless is quite expensive, but I think what hikes the cost is that these things need to be made bespoke and then adjusted to fit, it's never a case of working to a proper drawing.
I know people who've had pushpits and the like made or repaired. Welders who do this work seem to come and go, you need one who is good at tube bending. If someone at a proper boatyard can't help, the dairy industry might be worth a look?
I'm looking at other materials too.

Magnets on a boat? Compass!

 

[Kelpie]

We run 4x180w solar panels on the guardrails. Swap some guardwires to guardrails and you have a great mounting location. Super easy to fit 50w panels

Yup, guardwire mounted are great. You can make it super simple, or you can add lots of rails and clamps if you are so inclined.

 

[geem]

My boat is quite small.
It's kept on a river where the best sun is from astern.
The moorings are quite closely spaced and panels on the guard rails would be quite vulnerable.
Often on UK South Coast visitor moorings, boats raft up.

I'd prefer a simple permanently mounted panel or two on an arch, which would double as a bimini support or cockpit shelter.
Currently, I have a panel hanging off the backstay.

I have had a few ideas which need refinement, (to put the best gloss on it).

I don't mind taking own the bigger panels for the winter etc, but when we're cruising on the boat, 50W panels are inconvenient things to have below decks.
If I can reliable generate 2 or 3 Amps while sailing, the demands on my battery become minimal, so there's a cost saving there which I'm happy to invest in a tidy convenient solution.

I will work some thing out that suits us, I'm just trying to avoid re-inventing the wheel. Especially the square wheel!

Stainless is quite expensive, but I think what hikes the cost is that these things need to be made bespoke and then adjusted to fit, it's never a case of working to a proper drawing.
I know people who've had pushpits and the like made or repaired. Welders who do this work seem to come and go, you need one who is good at tube bending. If someone at a proper boatyard can't help, the dairy industry might be worth a look?
I'm looking at other materials too.

Magnets on a boat? Compass!

Small panels can be clipped to guardwires with sail hanks. When you leave the boat on a mooring, you simply turn them around so that they are inboard of the boat. This way they are not vunerable to passing traffic or rafted boats.
Very few boats have biminis in the UK. Most people are trying to get some sun, not hide from it. Biminis also reduce the view of the sails.
Mounting small flexible panels on a sprayhood is a other good solution.

 

[rogerthebodger]

If you have a look at Sailing Cadoha on YT, you see in a recent video that they prepare for a storm coming through Devon and packing up their deck laid solar panels for use at anchor. Interestingly there is a short clip of their bimini / sprayhood panels being removed too. I believe they are held on with strong non corroding magnets through the acrylic material.

This would be an easy and cheap solution for you. I believe they still sail in fair conditions using the magnets to secure the extra panels on their bimini. They do have an arch as well with panels and the option to deploy panels vertically up the mast tracks, but this is big bucks, so perhaps stick with the panels on the bimini with magnets for now.

Any magnet will not generally stick to the common stainless steel used on boats.

I have some inside covers held in place with magnets but they are rear earth magnets sticking to zinc plated mild steel

High strength Velcro would be better providing the Velcro is protected form any UV

 

[B27]

Yup, guardwire mounted are great. You can make it super simple, or you can add lots of rails and clamps if you are so inclined.

It's not great for every boat.
I get that it works for you, but for us it's a dead end. Moorings, getting on and off the boat, vulnerability, spinnaker sheets and just generally being in the way and down where things get splashed all the time. As well as high levels of shading and generally pointing the wrong way most of the time. It's part of what we do now and I'm fairly keen to move to a semi-permanent arch type install.

Plus, we're finding there a lot of time on the boat when it's been either raining or we're wanting shade, we're seeing a lot of possibilities in something we could rig some sort of cockpit shelter from.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Stainless is quite expensive, but I think what hikes the cost is that these things need to be made bespoke and then adjusted to fit, it's never a case of working to a proper drawing.

A stainless steel exhaust fabricator would be another firm who custom bend stainless tube when fitting to a classic or kit car

Any custom exhaust fitment centers local to you

 

[rogerthebodger]

It's not great for every boat.
I get that it works for you, but for us it's a dead end. Moorings, getting on and off the boat, vulnerability, spinnaker sheets and just generally being in the way and down where things get splashed all the time. As well as high levels of shading and generally pointing the wrong way most of the time. It's part of what we do now and I'm fairly keen to move to a semi-permanent arch type install.

Plus, we're finding there a lot of time on the boat when it's been either raining or we're wanting shade, we're seeing a lot of possibilities in something we could rig some sort of cockpit shelter from.

This shows my solar arch and the frame over the cockpit ready foe fitting more solar panels

https://flic.kr/p/VKo3Yn

There is am emergence range or stainless steel tube fittings that can be used with straight tube to assemble custom structures.

Once setup and tube cut to size you could be a local welded to weld it together Final fitting would be easy

stainless steel tube welding fittings - Google Suche

 

[PCUK]

Before I step up what would be the normal tube diameter for one of these arches?
Just thinking I probably fit his main requirement!

 

[B27]

That's exactly how I roll. On a 28fter there's minimal room and I think arches look hideous. I have 1x 100w semi-permanently on the sprayhood and 1 that's 'freelance' - it wither sits on the foredeck, the coach roof, the Bimini or on the guardrail.
It stows in the quarter berth when not in use.
The power increase available from being able to move the panel around should not be underestimated.

I don't disagree arches are not pretty.
But then I feel the same about a lot of the clutter on boats, like fenders, lifebuoys, outboards on the rail etc etc.
The boat is there to be used, it's not the most ornamental of boats anyway.
My main is in a stack pack which shades the sprayhood and coachroof something chronic. The foredeck is the only place I can inflate the dinghy because that's a bit bigger than you might choose.

Current thoughts include making an arch/awning frame from various materials including aluminium and carbon fibre.
Possibly some telescopic sections. Possibly use fibreglass bendy tent poles for the bimini/awning part.
By making the height adjustable, I might be able to have the arch lower apart from when it would seriously be in the way, so the leverage on it if someone grabs it would be a whole lot less. If the upright is a £10 item, then it's much less of a disaster if it gets a bit bent.

It does concern me that in rough water, people will hang on to anything which looks like a fixture. When you look at like that, then you have to ask whether the deck etc is strong enough to go bolting things to for people to fall against?

Unfortunately, I have now opened a can of worms because I have realised that almost everything near the transom is in the wrong place!

 

[Pete7]

I don't disagree arches are not pretty.
But then I feel the same about a lot of the clutter on boats, like fenders, lifebuoys, outboards on the rail etc etc.
The boat is there to be used, it's not the most ornamental of boats anyway.
My main is in a stack pack which shades the sprayhood and coachroof something chronic. The foredeck is the only place I can inflate the dinghy because that's a bit bigger than you might choose.

Current thoughts include making an arch/awning frame from various materials including aluminium and carbon fibre.
Possibly some telescopic sections. Possibly use fibreglass bendy tent poles for the bimini/awning part.
By making the height adjustable, I might be able to have the arch lower apart from when it would seriously be in the way, so the leverage on it if someone grabs it would be a whole lot less. If the upright is a £10 item, then it's much less of a disaster if it gets a bit bent.

It does concern me that in rough water, people will hang on to anything which looks like a fixture. When you look at like that, then you have to ask whether the deck etc is strong enough to go bolting things to for people to fall against?

Unfortunately, I have now opened a can of worms because I have realised that almost everything near the transom is in the wrong place!

Does it have to be a pole or even stainless steel? These folk have some interesting alternatives. Used them a few times for materials.

Galvanised Square Clamps

Glass fibre tubes are also available:

Polyester Glassfibre Tube - 25.4mm x 19.4mm or Interclamp® GRP Key Clamp Handrail Fittings

My tubes photographed earlier are 1" btw. However, when I called into Solent Stainless a couple of months ago for some tube, they were making a large arch for a 50ft yacht. Tube size looked about 50mm. Seemed to have bits for hoisting a dinghy as well. It was huge, dread to think what the price was. If you go down the tube route, make sure that tubes and fittings are either metric or imperial. Seems both are readily available.

https://www.baselinemarine.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=54&cat=Standard+Range

 

[B27]

Before I step up what would be the normal tube diameter for one of these arches?
Just thinking I probably fit his main requirement!

I don't know what the minimum is.
On the one hand, if it gets abused you might want it to be atleast as strong as the balcony balustrade posts on a house which are about 40mm?,
OTOH, everybody's sprayhood and grab rail are 3/4 or 1 inch at most?
If you can do tube bending in 3/4 or 1 in stainless that would be good to know!

Does it have to be a pole or even stainless steel? These folk have some interesting alternatives. Used them a few times for materials.

Galvanised Square Clamps

Glass fibre tubes are also available:

Polyester Glassfibre Tube - 25.4mm x 19.4mm or Interclamp® GRP Key Clamp Handrail Fittings

My tubes photographed earlier are 1" btw. However, when I called into Solent Stainless a couple of months ago for some tube, they were making a large arch for a 50ft yacht. Tube size looked about 50mm. Seemed to have bits for hoisting a dinghy as well. It was huge, dread to think what the price was. If you go down the tube route, make sure that tubes and fittings are either metric or imperial. Seems both are readily available.

https://www.baselinemarine.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=54&cat=Standard+Range

Thanks for some ideas!
If anyone wants a cheap (and nasty?) fitting to clamp to a tube look at 'cable cleat'.