Solé diesel inboards

[alexincornwall]

Our Perkins M50 has unfortunately sprung a small oil leak and my limited knowledge leads me to suspect one or more worn piston rings, an engine-out job. Given the work involved, I’m seriously considering re-reengining the boat. The M50 is 32 years old and has close to 4K hours so it’s had a good innings, but I don’t think it makes sense to rebuild.

I’m looking at all of the usual suspects (Beta, Yanmar and Volvo Penta) but our preferred engineer is enthusiastically backing the Spanish brand Solé (marinised Mitsubishi units), which he claims are some of the best built engines he has come across and the service/availability of parts is excellent. I’d not heard of this brand previously and I’m not getting a huge amount back from my internet searches. One of my concerns was the lesser known brand name and the potential for reduced resale value. I also spoke with a broker who felt that this may be a poor choice for the same reason. I’d be keen to hear other members views on the brand, particularly real life experiences.

Thanks in advance.

 

[LittleSister]

I have no direct knowledge of Sole diesels. I do, though, seem to recall that in a recent debate about a boat Wansworth was interested that had a new Vetus engine, someone said it was (also) based on a Mitsubishi industrial engine, and these were known to have poor access to service items in a boat installation (raw water pump, oil filter and fuel filter, etc, were all to the side or rear of the engine). That might not apply to the much larger Mitsubishi engine you are considering (his was about 12hp or 16hp I think) or be a problem in your engine installation, but worth checking out, I would have thought.

 

[neilf39]

Looked at them when re-engining and looked fine but some bits would have been hard to get at to service on my boat (as they were on the Vetus)so went with a Beta as everything is accessible from the front.

 

[cagey]

Beta have an exceptional agent/engineer in Penryn, he is good with everything you need from a local resource. Simon Caddy very helpful. Had my Beta 10 plus years and been very pleased although I do talk to her and treat her to new oil and filters every year.

 

[blush2]

We replaced the VP2003 on Blush with a Sole 3 cylinder, think it was a 29, about six years ago. Part of the reason for our choice was because it fitted onto the VP mounts and the saildrive. No problems with spares. (Sorry if I'm a bit vague but we have sold her.)

 

[PetiteFleur]

I also investigated engines when buying a new engine and decided on a Beta as had excellent access for all service items. And they can make engine feet to suit your bearers. Good price as well(bought from Southampton Boat Show) with box of spares as well. Excellent aftersales service as well.

 

[colind3782]

We have a Sole Mini 34 and I have had no problems with spares in Spain and UK. Pattern filters are readily available. The only problem we have with it is that it is too big for the engine bay, a previous only having decided that “bigger is better”! It does make it a bit snug to work on but I have no real problems. The UK distributors are Engines Plus who have a list of local dealers.

 

[robmcg]

Left of field answer here but a full rebuild kit for your M50 is only about £400. The base engine is not a complicated beast and even getting someone to do the rebuild would cost far less than a new 50hp engine of any stripe. It all depends on what you want to do with the boat/ how long you want to keep it. The engine will have to come out anyway if you are replacing it. I had a van back in the day with a Perkins Prima engine. The van died way before the engine gave any trouble and it had close to 200k miles on it.

 

[Tranona]

Essentially the same as Vetus. Like others I looked at them (both Vetus and Sole). Generally speaking the Mitsubishi base engines they use are smaller capacity and higher revving than the Kubota base engines (and Yanmar and Volvo). So a Sole 50 is 1750cc, and 3000 rpm whereas a Beta 53 is 2200cc and 2800 rpm. Your Perkins is 2000cc.. Beta has most service points at the front, whereas Sole (and Volvo) have filters aft on the starboard side. OK if you have good side access starboard side as many modern boats do with aft cabins, or older centre cockpit boats where front access can be a problem. Most current engines have the exhaust on the port side whereas the Perkins is on the starboard side and the water pump is at the rear of the engine compared with most now on the front. These are the sort of details that need to be considered for each individual installation and may influence the choice of engine.

While Sole is long established and nothing technically wrong with either the base engine or marinisation they have a chequered history of representation in the UK and there is nothing compelling about them that would make them first choice compared with the more popular makes. They are likely to be a bit cheaper than Beta, Volvo or Yanmar, but the engine cost is typically only 70% or so of a total re-engine project. The comment about resale is valid. Just like computers and IBM, The established brands, Volvo, Yanmar, Beta do not attract resistance among buyers. While it is valid to listen to the views of the installer, they may not be unbiased as the lesser known brands tend to sell to independent fitters because they do not have a strong dealer network compared with the 3 big brands.

Do not dismiss rebuilding your Perkins. Unlike most other "marine" engines it is based on a high volume automotive engine and is designed in such a way that it can be reconditioned easily and economically. All the parts are available at modest prices and any specialist engine shop can do the machining. The key deciding factor will be the condition of the marinisation parts, particularly the heat exchanger. If that is OK then a budget of £4k for the rebuild is generous, compared with close to £10k for a new engine. Downside of course is that you end up with an engine that has been out of production for 20 years, but if done properly no reason why it won't run for another 30 years and 4000 hours.

Difficult choice, not dissimilar to the one I faced with my project. The deciding factor for me (against reconditioning a Perkins) was that the engine was not well matched to the boat, being too large in both power and physical size. Add to that the difference in potential cost of reconditioning and new was smaller because of the high cost of parts for the base engine.

Not an easy decision, but if it were me, and going new rather than reconditioning it would be Beta 53, closely followed by Volvo D2 50

 

[RogerJolly]

If you have limited knowledge OP, why not get an engineer to have a look?

Not sure how piston ring problems lead to an external oil leak - maybe blow-by causing excessive crank case pressure? Could it be an easy fix though - something like a leaking gasket?

 

[Jim@sea]

Our Perkins M50 has unfortunately sprung a small oil leak and my limited knowledge leads me to suspect one or more worn piston rings, an engine-out job. Given the work involved, I’m seriously considering re-reengining the boat. The M50 is 32 years old and has close to 4K hours so it’s had a good innings, but I don’t think it makes sense to rebuild.

I’m looking at all of the usual suspects (Beta, Yanmar and Volvo Penta) but our preferred engineer is enthusiastically backing the Spanish brand Solé (marinised Mitsubishi units), which he claims are some of the best built engines he has come across and the service/availability of parts is excellent. I’d not heard of this brand previously and I’m not getting a huge amount back from my internet searches. One of my concerns was the lesser known brand name and the potential for reduced resale value. I also spoke with a broker who felt that this may be a poor choice for the same reason. I’d be keen to hear other members views on the brand, particularly real life experiences.

Thanks in advance.

I think you should consider how easy it would be when at some time in the future you wanted to sell your boat and your advert stated Recent New Sole Engine, whereas if your advert stated Recent Perkins Reconditioned Engine would bring in far more enquiries.
And as far as I am aware Perkins Engines have "Wet Liners" which means that an engine dosent have to be re-bored for fitting new pistons. A choice of engine is a very big thing for some buyers I once made a mistake in buying a 20 year old boat which had an IVECO engine and despite my experience of having a garage for 25 years I was unable to find some engine parts. whereas with Perkins engines there are hundreds of Massye Perkins Tractor Dealers and they all stock parts for old engines as there are still many 1960 Massey Ferguson Diesel Tractors running round still working. And Perkins Parts are cheap.

 

[Tranona]

And as far as I am aware Perkins Engines have "Wet Liners" which means that an engine dosent have to be re-bored for fitting new pistons. A choice of engine is a very big thing for some buyers I once made a mistake in buying a 20 year old boat which had an IVECO engine and despite my experience of having a garage for 25 years I was unable to find some engine parts. whereas with Perkins engines there are hundreds of Massye Perkins Tractor Dealers and they all stock parts for old engines as there are still many 1960 Massey Ferguson Diesel Tractors running round still working. And Perkins Parts are cheap.

The M50 does not have wet liners and is not used in tractors. It is a British Leyland engine used in Montegos, Maestros and LDV vans as well as being marinised by Volvo as the MD22 All engine parts are readily available. (se post#9)

 

[Aja]

I have a Thorneycroft T95 which is a marinised Mitsubishi S4L 39hp.

Parts a very easy to get hold of, reasonably priced and everything is easy to get at, although I'll be honest the impeller would be a pain (but not impossible) to replace at sea.

1800 hours in always started and runs without issue.

I suppose it all depends on the quality of the marinisation.

Donald

 

[alexincornwall]

Thanks everyone for their responses (for some reason I no longer receive email notifications of replies hence the delay). Some interesting points to consider.

Regarding our M50, my piston ring diagnosis comes from the recent evidence of white/grey exhaust smoke and hours of mucking around with bright torches and blue paper towel in an effort to identify the source of the (small) leak, which I eventually traced to the air filter. I would rebuild the engine but only if it was a cheap and easy solution. I am reluctant because the associated labour costs with just getting the engine out of the boat is significant. I'm not one to chuck things away unnecessarily but given the M50 will have a resale value (faulty or not), I think it's time to splash out. We use our boat a lot and travel thousands of miles each year. I like the idea of a 5 year turnkey warranty too.

People of obviously have mixed feelings on the Solé, which does put me off to an extent, but I have to say that it looks like it would work very well on our boat (Bowman 40), because virtually all of the serviceable equipment is in the right place. And it's definitely not what I'd consider to be a roomy engine bay.

Beta probably would have been my preference but their lead time is 20 weeks which scuppers our planned travels to the med this summer through to next. I don't like trying to make poorly considered decisions around deadlines but we'd be very disappointed if we had to postpone for 12 months because we wanted a particular brand of engine in the boat. Perhaps I'm being short sighted!

 

[Tranona]

Selling the engine while it is running in the boat is a good idea. I did that and was able to get a far higher price than the allowance as trade in against my new Beta. Had a similar wait this time last year for a 30hp.

Nobody has mentioned Nanni. That was my first choice having been very happy with one in a previous boat. Same base engine as Beta, but in some ways better marinisation (and a nicer colour!). The only reason I did not go that way is because they no longer have a proper dealer in Poole and I could not find anybody locally I would be happy to have fit one. If it is any sort of recommendation, Rustler fit Nannis unless customers insist on alternatives.

 

[robmcg]

Regarding our M50, my piston ring diagnosis comes from the recent evidence of white/grey exhaust smoke and hours of mucking around with bright torches and blue paper towel in an effort to identify the source of the (small) leak, which I eventually traced to the air filter

It sounds like you have a blocked crankcase breather which is a common issue on these engines. The breather feeds back into the air intake. It could very well be nothing to do with the piston rings. The breather device is located on top of the engine. Remove, clean and see if the symptoms persist. Make sure that the air cleaner is cleaned out too. These engines like good air flow.

 

[alexincornwall]

It sounds like you have a blocked crankcase breather which is a common issue on these engines. The breather feeds back into the air intake. It could very well be nothing to do with the piston rings. The breather device is located on top of the engine. Remove, clean and see if the symptoms persist. Make sure that the air cleaner is cleaned out too. These engines like good air flow.

Funnily enough @robmcg, just as you posted I was on the telephone to an engineer who suggested exactly that. I did test the hose by breathing through it (with filler cap off of course), and didn't feel any resistance but you never know. I'm also told there is a gauze located beneath the filler cap that should also be removed and cleaned. I'll certainly try that.

 

[robmcg]

It's a throwback to early emmision control from the automotive origin of the engine. You don't necessarily need to vent the breather back through the air inlet, it can go to a catch can which will reduce the grey exhaust emissions somewhat. It's certainly worth a clean out. The other thing to look at is your exhaust elbow. These engines hate too much back pressure and if the exhaust elbow is occluded in any way, the engine will struggle to breath out.

 

[Piddy]

I fitted a Sole Mini 44 3 years ago - I particularly wanted 40HP+, service from the starboard side and rear facing water pump. Beta, Nanni & Yanmar (IIRC) could not meet these requirements. I had an interesting discussion with an engine fitter (well known in Solent area - excellent reputation for work etc.) who was adamant that the Beta 35hp would be fine but after owning the boat for 20+ years, I was equally adamant on what I wanted.
Engines Plus (as distributers) supplied the engine after a deal at the Soton Boat Show and I fitted it. It has run faultlessly for 450 hours. Since I fitted it, several South Coast companies have now started supplying and fitting Sole engines.
I was reassured by the hundreds of small Spanish fishing boats using these engines.....
In my mind the biggest limitation is the lack of poly v belt drive to alternator - although that may have changed by now.

I love it!

The Mini 55 is simply a turbo charged version of the Mini 44 so making it a very small package for the power.

 

[Minerva]

I fitted a Sole Mini 44 3 years ago - I particularly wanted 40HP+, service from the starboard side and rear facing water pump. Beta, Nanni & Yanmar (IIRC) could not meet these requirements. I had an interesting discussion with an engine fitter (well known in Solent area - excellent reputation for work etc.) who was adamant that the Beta 35hp would be fine but after owning the boat for 20+ years, I was equally adamant on what I wanted.
Engines Plus (as distributers) supplied the engine after a deal at the Soton Boat Show and I fitted it. It has run faultlessly for 450 hours. Since I fitted it, several South Coast companies have now started supplying and fitting Sole engines.
I was reassured by the hundreds of small Spanish fishing boats using these engines.....
In my mind the biggest limitation is the lack of poly v belt drive to alternator - although that may have changed by now.

I love it!

The Mini 55 is simply a turbo charged version of the Mini 44 so making it a very small package for the power.

May ask why you want a rear facing waterpump? That sounds like a real nuisance to get the impeller out and I would have presumed to have be considered a negative. What have I not considered/not realised?

*** edit ***

Have I had a reading and comprehension fail and by rear facing water pump you mean when you face the front of the ending the water pump cover is looking at you with the pump behind?