So - what boating next

[Hurricane]

We have been in the western Med for 9 seasons .
Based at Sant Carles and although we love the place, our thoughts are "what next"?

2017 will definitely still be at SC with the odd run across to the Baldricks - maybe late summer in Ibiza.
Before the 2018 season, the boat will need a full service - engine valve clearances - and other preventative maintenance measures.
This year, I will probably fit solar panels to make her more resilient to long spells away from a marina.

So, what is our long term plan.
I dunno at the moment.

We don't want to give up our base at Sant Carles so maybe a 2 or 5 year mission into the eastern Med.
We loved our trip down to Carloforte so that would be a great "stepping stone" in that direction.

Turkey looks fab but it is a bit unstable at the moment but there must be great places on the way.
In Paris, I got a price for a berth in Turkey for the year and it seems great value.
If we did decide to go that way, SWMBO and I would probably hop onto a flight and have a look.
This is a long term plan so it would be great to hear other views on the subject.
There must be loads of great cruising in the Adriatic.

What does the panel think?

 

[petem]

Greece? I'd love to 'do' the Greek islands and assume this would be a little safer than Turkey.

Or Croatia - highly regarded by Deleted User,. Bart, etc?

 

[Sticky Fingers]

I went to Croatia for the first time last summer (sailing), loved it. Food not maybe as good as Spain or France but very friendly and scenery was superb. Going back next year. Well worth a look.

 

[Whitelighter]

I'd certainly be tempted by Croatia - I think once we have 'done' Spain we'd be tempted to move the boat up that way

 

[Bouba]

The south of France is sooo last year.

 

[BartW]

as you know Mike, we really love Croatia,
this year we have explored the complete coast from north to south, countless islands, bay's, nice old villages etc..
you can spend there many years without being bored

our home base in Porto Montenegro is: very luxury and clean, very friendly, and relatively close to 3 airports, all approx 2hours flights from Belgium.
The Boka bay / Kotor bay is absolutely stunning.
Tax free fuel is a nice coincidence

from there you can do a summer cruise to:
Venice, or
Sicily and Amalfi (our plan for 2017)
or Corfu and or Greece,
or even Turkey....

I should force myself to post some pice from our trip last weekend !

 

[MrB]

I should force myself to post some pice from our trip last weekend !

Please do :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

Or Croatia - highly regarded by Deleted User, Bart, etc?

You can add myself to the list.
We spent a whole decade of cruising along the HR coasts and countless islands, and enjoyed every minute of it.
And when eventually we moved, it wasn't because we were bored, but just for the wish to see something else.
In a sense, after exactly another decade in Sardinia, we would have more reasons to leave now: I mean, we can now say to know Sardinia much better than we ever knew HR.
But in the meantime, we made so many good friends in CF that by now we call it home...
...And the cruising grounds aren't too shabby anyway, after all!
But the possibilities to safely overnight at anchor practically anywhere in the HR archipelago is the thing we miss most, at times. :encouragement:

 

[MapisM]

Sicily and Amalfi (our plan for 2017)

We must definitely keep in touch on that, B.
I've got a couple of candidate boats ATM, but in both cases that area would be along our way!
Any idea about the period yet? For us, ideally it would be around the beginning of the summer.

 

[Hardmy]

What a great idea to visit the E-Med, very few people of this parish venturing out there! I was based in Croatia and now in the Ionian Greece. Trying to compare them:

Croatia "+"
- Unlimited choice of islands with nice coves.
- Interesting contrasts. Bare stone/sandy hills on Pag or the Kornati. Lush green (subtropical?) vegetation N of Dubrovnik. River/canyon navigation on Zrmanja or Krka rivers.
- Every village or town has a very pleasant flair / nice architecture. Thanks to Venetian.
- Sheltered waters. Sure there is the Bura, but its stength is not everywhere the same.
- Still cheap compared to other parts of the Med. But... entry in national parks or a night in hotspots like Hvar can be expensive.

Croatia "-"
- Limited selection of airports with usable flights.
- Many nice bays have been "destroyed" with mooring fields.
- Very few sandy beaches.
- Quality of craftsmen not on par with Italy.
- The Croats start to have a tendency to see everything with a mercantile angle. Italians or Greeks especially can show more human warmth.

The added bonus of Croatia is the proximity to good Italian yards for wintering/maintenance. And of course, Montenegro with its magical fjord where it feels like navigating an alpine lake. The nice ad-on there is the taxfree fuel.

Kornati

Silba

Mali Losinj

Zrmanja River

Montenegro

Greek Ionian "+"
- Longer cruising season.
- Very very green everywhere.
- The lack of infrastructure (harbors with no lazy lines, electricity, ...). It feels like back to the roots.
- No mooring fields.
- Many places to hide from the crowds.
- Very cheap cruising. I think I paid only 4-5 times a harbour fee.

Greek Ionian "-"
- Flight connections are even worse than Croatia (at least for me based in D)
- July/August is supposed to be a horror because of flotillas and Italians (that's why we switch boating with mountains in CH at this time of the year)
- Sailing conditions are benign at first sight. But at the start or the end of the season, there can be violent thunderstorms/squalls/wind direction changes. I've never seen so many beached boats anywhere else.

Butrint (vis-à-vis Corfu)

Sissi Palace (Corfu)

Corfu

Antipaxos

Parga

Levkas channel

Kalamos

Kefalonia

Zakynthos

I think you need at least 1 year for Croatia, and 1 year for the Greek Ionian:
- In Croatia I would base myself either around the "bigger" airports Split (Baotic Marina) or Dubrovnik (ACI Slano or Dubrovnik itself if you find a slot).
- In the Ionian Greece, I would base the boat in Gouvia Marina Corfu. Because of the flights, and the beautiful town of Corfu. Levkas, the other "acceptable" marina in the area has fewer flights but is strategically placed in the middle of the whole Greek Ionian.

For year 3. I would consider crossing the Corinth canal, then Saronic islands, up Euboa, a visit to Vas in the Pagasitikos Gulf and up to the Halkidiki via the Sporades. This is actually a plan I am working on. With leaving the boat in the new Miraggio Marina on Kassandra peninsula. The other alternative, and more off the beaten track, is the S-Peloponnese. Looks really fantastic and very remote.

I can't say anything about the Aegean, the Dodecanese or Crete. Did not do my homework yet (beside the fact that I heard that because of the Meltemi, there are not much Mobos in the Aegean).

Regarding the situation in Turkey, I know many Germans who still keep their boat there without any problem. But many left (e.g. Kusadasi 80 out of 450), and some marinas are desperate at filling free berths with new arrivals. One must just keep in mind, that at the time the putch tentative was going on. The CG was blocking all boats wanting to leave the country, including Superyachts. Maybe the situation is more stable now, but if problems arise again one's movements may be restricted :-/



P.S. Some pics may repeat with previous posts in other threads, sorry for that.

 

[BartW]

We must definitely keep in touch on that, B.
I've got a couple of candidate boats ATM, but in both cases that area would be along our way!
Any idea about the period yet? For us, ideally it would be around the beginning of the summer.

plan so far but not firm:

sometime in may;
sail to Monopoly, do some basic maintenance there, and "negociate" big works for next winter

beginning july:
sail to Sicily,

no further planning from than, but like to stay a few weeks near Amalfi - Positano....
after the season, bring her somewhere in a yard in Italy. (rebuilding Bulwarks and decks)

 

[longjohnsilver]

Don't apologise for any repeats, they are all fabulous! More would be good.

 

[Hurricane]

Thanks for all this
Especially Hardmy for those fantastic pics.
Lots of "food for thought" - I like Bart's idea of Montenegro - need to check that one out.

 

[Cheery]

Comments regarding the food in Croatia have been mentioned in another thread on here a while ago. Possibly not up to Western Med standards but the scenery and the warmth of the people are more than adequate compensation. You could always eat onboard a lot more frequently and just splurge on a quality restaurant when the occasion presented itself.

 

[DavidJ]

We used to tow a Sealine 195 to Yugoslavia (that shows how long ago) one of our favourite areas were Mali Losinj and Veli Losinj (Spelling?) and a little remote island called Susak where we used to go for breakfast. My memory is that we could "drive" straight into the little village harbours and just tie up.
Food variety was the biggest problem then but our family still reminisces on the rasanitsi (again spelling) kebabs.
You will love it I'm sure

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I have 3 recommendations, Croatia, Croatia and Croatia. Best cruising ground that I have come across in the Med (although I haven't tried the Greek islands yet). Agree totally with hardmy's analysis. Lack of winter flights is the big issue but if you have time on your hands you can fly to Zagreb, Dubrovnik or even Llubljana and rent a car

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Comments regarding the food in Croatia have been mentioned in another thread on here a while ago. Possibly not up to Western Med standards but the scenery and the warmth of the people are more than adequate compensation. You could always eat onboard a lot more frequently and just splurge on a quality restaurant when the occasion presented itself.

The food in Croatia is a mixed bag. In the tourist spots you are going to eat overpriced boring tourist food just like any other tourist area in the world. However the beauty of Croatia and for me one of the great pleasures there was finding excellent restaurants, often in remote locations, many with their own moorings which would be foc if you ate dinner in the restaurant. Croatian food is not sophisticated but the better restaurants do cook simple food very well and the settings are often stunning. What more can you ask for than be ferried out to a lobster pot in the restaurant owner's dinghy to choose your own lobsters for dinner that night which are then grilled and served on your own boat? Or have the freshest sea bass you ever tasted served at a table on a rock overlooking a beautiful bay in which your boat is at anchor.
Actually I think Croatian food suits the British palate quite well because it mainly consists of simple grilled meat or fish dishes (never ever undercooked!) served with chips if you want and washed down by the local plonk. Yes I know sophisticated Italians on this forum don't think much of Croatian wine but for we Brits with uneducated palates believe me it tastes just fine

 

[stillwaters]

Lack of winter flights is the big issue but if you have time on your hands you can fly to Zagreb, Dubrovnik or even Llubljana and rent a car

Alternatively, you could maybe base your boat in Croatia for the summer months, anywhere between Split & Zadar, with their regular summer flights could work well, and then over-winter in Montenegro. Ok, winter weather might be hit & miss, but Podgorica has cheap twice-weekly direct winter flights by Ryan Air from Stansted. Also twice-weekly via Charleroi from Manchester, which could provide an extra choice of length of stay. Additionally from late March, Easyjet fly Manchester, and I think Gatwick, direct to Tivat, about 10 minutes from Porto Montenegro.
J.

 

[Cheery]

Sounds absolutely divine Mike except the last thing I want to eat when I am away from work is bloody chips! A friend of mine (WO1 Royal Artillery) served in the Balkan conflict and he liked it so much his parents took frequent holidays in Croatia on his recommendation.

 

[BartW]

...... the last thing I want to eat when I am away from work is bloody chips!

Chips is no Original Croatian food ! they have no culture with chips, but more with boiled or grilled potatoes
nowaday's you can get chips in most eating places, but remember you may not expect the best quality.
believe me as a Belgian I should know ;-)
but all the other elements of the food, are really good to my taste, when you choose the right place.
as per Deleted User description, basic fresh grilled meat or fish, no complex preparations nor sauces.
all the variations of different kind of fish and seafood are absolutely my taste.
and not expensive.