Ballistix
Well-Known Member
...and AIS system this year? I've just put the new AIS transponder in...anyone else putting a full duplex system in or just a receiver?
Just interested...
T
Just interested...
T
So is anyone else installing...
- Thread starter Ballistix
- Start date
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Yep - the Comar one.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Thinking about anstalling the new DigitalYachts transmitter/receiver. I am not sure about the two different classes of AIS though - I imagine it is only really useful if everyone is using it and then using the same type.
Its only about £200 less than a radar scanner, but I am not sure which would be more useful. I haveno real experience of using Radar, but whenever I have looked at other peoples systems I find it hard to decipher without a chart overlay.
Its only about £200 less than a radar scanner, but I am not sure which would be more useful. I haveno real experience of using Radar, but whenever I have looked at other peoples systems I find it hard to decipher without a chart overlay.
Vanilla
Well-Known Member
Yes but only a receiver (a raggie BTW)
Divemaster1
Well-Known Member
Radar any day ... the big ones can see you on AIS .... but how many have AIS installedin leisure boats???
I'd buy a radar before Chartplotter .... and AIS after that. It is not about the ones who transmitt & receive AIS .... it's about the ones who don't .... and you can use it to find markers and coastal features as well..
I'd buy a radar before Chartplotter .... and AIS after that. It is not about the ones who transmitt & receive AIS .... it's about the ones who don't .... and you can use it to find markers and coastal features as well..
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Surely you buy a radar AND chartplotter - after all all you need once you have the scanner and screen for the radar is a £200 map chip???
Divemaster1
Well-Known Member
If I had to make a choice... Radar comes first .... with that one I may see coastlines, other vessels etc... A Plotter don't show anything moving on the water, ...just what is supposed to be there...
Radar starts up after engines and I use that more than the chartplotter..... but then again I now have both (seperate units) and have a dual range/split screen radar..
AIS just shows me the ones who transmitt AIS signals, and those ones usually are big, carry reflectors anyway and are keeping radar watch .... I'm more concerned about the other ones.... hence the radar ....
Radar starts up after engines and I use that more than the chartplotter..... but then again I now have both (seperate units) and have a dual range/split screen radar..
AIS just shows me the ones who transmitt AIS signals, and those ones usually are big, carry reflectors anyway and are keeping radar watch .... I'm more concerned about the other ones.... hence the radar ....
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Seconded 100%.
AIS is just a matter of having one more toy onboard, while at times the radar can be a life saving device.
AIS is just a matter of having one more toy onboard, while at times the radar can be a life saving device.
jimmy_the_builder
Well-Known Member
Following on from our conversation today I think I'd put digital radar as a higher priority than AIS. Ideally I'd have both though.
Cheers
Jimmy
Cheers
Jimmy
Ballistix
Well-Known Member
Yeah both probably. I think you'll find that AIS is going to become quite a factor in the future, in Europe it is becoming the defacto standard. Anyway, I'm a geek, and I like the technology...but I just wondered what other people thought..
I find it quite interesting seeing what other AIS vessals are telling me about their boats...I'll be watching it this summer to see if any leisure craft start transmitting..
T
I find it quite interesting seeing what other AIS vessals are telling me about their boats...I'll be watching it this summer to see if any leisure craft start transmitting..
T
Divemaster1
Well-Known Member
In rough order after some wine...(Italian I might add)
1. Chart, compass, rulers etc ....
2. VHF (DSC)
3. Echo Sounder
4. Radar
5. GPS
6. Liferaft
6. Chart Plotter
7. EPRIB
8. AIS receiver
9. ASI Transponder
... but then again, I am old hand who learned navigation before GPR etc.....
1. Chart, compass, rulers etc ....
2. VHF (DSC)
3. Echo Sounder
4. Radar
5. GPS
6. Liferaft
6. Chart Plotter
7. EPRIB
8. AIS receiver
9. ASI Transponder
... but then again, I am old hand who learned navigation before GPR etc.....
rickp
Well-Known Member
Its going to be unusable if every vessel in the solent is busy transmitting its AIS info. The protocol can cope, but I'm not sure how the plotters will cope with many hundreds of targets. Certainly I don't see a way of filtering all Class B vessels from the output of the NASA engine (without resorting to on-the-fly editting of the NMEA stream).
Rick
Rick
Divemaster1
Well-Known Member
AIS B transmitts with limited power ... range approx 4 NM, so restrictive by default..
MapisM
Well-Known Member
Sensible choice.
For the wine, that is!!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
...ok, also for the rest.
For the wine, that is!!! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
...ok, also for the rest.
rickp
Well-Known Member
Yes, I know that - which was why I was talking about the solent. Offshore, its not a problem.
In congested waters with lots of targets merrily transmitting away, your plotter is going to have rather a lot to deal with - so it will either crash, or just start ignoring targets. Either way, it makes the system less useful. I can see big ships just filtering out all class B targets, at which point it becomes wasted money.
FWIW I agree on the radar front 100%.
Rick
In congested waters with lots of targets merrily transmitting away, your plotter is going to have rather a lot to deal with - so it will either crash, or just start ignoring targets. Either way, it makes the system less useful. I can see big ships just filtering out all class B targets, at which point it becomes wasted money.
FWIW I agree on the radar front 100%.
Rick
Talbot
Well-Known Member
If you have an AIS receiver, it will certainly make understanding radar a lot easier.
Divemaster1
Well-Known Member
Agree wholeheartedly ... and being resourceful private boatowner, I'd install an "illegal" amplefier to expand my "safety zone" making it more to filter out by the commercial fleet .... whom I'd see with my radar anyway ...
I see the benefit with a receiver conected to my radar, but never instead of a radar ... the AIS receiver / transponder is very low down on my list.. as I've said above..
I see the benefit with a receiver conected to my radar, but never instead of a radar ... the AIS receiver / transponder is very low down on my list.. as I've said above..
SnaxMuppet
Well-Known Member
Interesting... that you value not getting lost above something that could save your life... a liferaft!
OK, I can probably guess your logic there... better not to get into trouble in the first place. But there is a HUGE flaw in that... it is often the things that radar, gps sounder etc can't help with that sink your boat!
My list is:
1) Lifejackets with straps and hoods
2) Liferaft - 10 mins in the water at this time of year could see you unconscious!
2) Flares... normal (handheld and paras) and mini flares
3) Radar enhancer (e.g. SeaMe)... even if you don't have radar the big boys do and you want to be seen. I suppose a good radar reflector, mounted high up and in the correct orientation is better than nothing but the enhancers really make you stand out on radar.
4) Sounder - essential for all kinds of navigation with or without GPS or radar.
5) GPS Chartplotter... navigation, especially on a fast moving mobo, is SO much easier with a chartplotter and that makes the whole operation of the boat safer... don't forget to back it up with traditional charts and normal navigation in case it breaks!
6) radar... great at night or in poor weather... but to use it properly it benefits from a dedicated operator constantly adjusting and interpreting what is on the screen. To operate a radar effectively on your own while operating the boat, navigating etc can be a challenge. Also, overlay is grossly over rated IMO. It really only helps you interpret the coastline, islands etc but it really isn't needed if you are navigating effectively as then the shapes painted generally make sense without overlay. Overlay also obsures the fainter boat echos defeating the object somewhat.
7) EPIRB... one with a builtin GPS is a great help... I have a personal type that I can throw in a grab bag or even just keep in my pocket.
8) Handheld VHF... great for the grab bag and useful when entering port on a flybridge for example.
9) mobile phone... not as a first-use item in an emergency (use the VHF)
10) AIS... not many with it at the moment and you need a plotter than can show the AIS overlay BUT it will get much bigger and more common in the years to come I am sure. I am not even 100% sure I will be fitting it for my trip even though I have one loaned to me and ready to fit.
Yup, I would put AIS 10th at the moment... interesting isn't it...?
OK, I can probably guess your logic there... better not to get into trouble in the first place. But there is a HUGE flaw in that... it is often the things that radar, gps sounder etc can't help with that sink your boat!
My list is:
1) Lifejackets with straps and hoods
2) Liferaft - 10 mins in the water at this time of year could see you unconscious!
2) Flares... normal (handheld and paras) and mini flares
3) Radar enhancer (e.g. SeaMe)... even if you don't have radar the big boys do and you want to be seen. I suppose a good radar reflector, mounted high up and in the correct orientation is better than nothing but the enhancers really make you stand out on radar.
4) Sounder - essential for all kinds of navigation with or without GPS or radar.
5) GPS Chartplotter... navigation, especially on a fast moving mobo, is SO much easier with a chartplotter and that makes the whole operation of the boat safer... don't forget to back it up with traditional charts and normal navigation in case it breaks!
6) radar... great at night or in poor weather... but to use it properly it benefits from a dedicated operator constantly adjusting and interpreting what is on the screen. To operate a radar effectively on your own while operating the boat, navigating etc can be a challenge. Also, overlay is grossly over rated IMO. It really only helps you interpret the coastline, islands etc but it really isn't needed if you are navigating effectively as then the shapes painted generally make sense without overlay. Overlay also obsures the fainter boat echos defeating the object somewhat.
7) EPIRB... one with a builtin GPS is a great help... I have a personal type that I can throw in a grab bag or even just keep in my pocket.
8) Handheld VHF... great for the grab bag and useful when entering port on a flybridge for example.
9) mobile phone... not as a first-use item in an emergency (use the VHF)
10) AIS... not many with it at the moment and you need a plotter than can show the AIS overlay BUT it will get much bigger and more common in the years to come I am sure. I am not even 100% sure I will be fitting it for my trip even though I have one loaned to me and ready to fit.
Yup, I would put AIS 10th at the moment... interesting isn't it...?
Hurricane
Well-Known Member
Ballistix
I'm afraid I agree with everyone else here - its only that we are starting with a blank sheet of paper so this was the order of importance.
Plotter / GPS
Echo sounder
Radar
Secondary method of input (PC)
AIS was the very last thing on the list and I only ordered the Class B transmitter because it was roughly the same price as adding a Raymarine dedicated RX only.
For those interested here is a list of the new kit that is actually being fitted at the moment.
4 off 12" Raymarine G series displays - 2 at each position.
2 off Raymarine G Series processors - each with a hard disk containing preloaded Navionics Platinium charts.
1 Radar scanner - and yes, we've managed to get one of the first digital ones available.
1 off digital sounder module (fish finder)
2 off wireless keyboards to control the whole system
1 off Comar AIS transponder
2 off GPS mushrooms (1 main GPS - and 1 for the AIS)
To make all this work, a full NMEA2000 bus is being installed along with the usual Seatalk and older NMEA interfaces.
A central PC is going also going to feed each of the 4 displays - these displays can take video a multitude of video feeds from various sources as well as the feed from the G Series processors. Three entirely separate distributions of Cat6 cables are being installed to distribute Video, Audio and PC networks throughout.
Coupled with the above, we are installing 60cm Satellite domes which I will also be feeding throughout the boat.
And to top it off, a WiFi antenna will distribute internet services to the PC and the boat's own internal WiFi service.
As you can appreciate, this is going to be a very sophisticated system. If anyone's interested, I will write up the full system later, once we have actually got everything working.
I'm afraid I agree with everyone else here - its only that we are starting with a blank sheet of paper so this was the order of importance.
Plotter / GPS
Echo sounder
Radar
Secondary method of input (PC)
AIS was the very last thing on the list and I only ordered the Class B transmitter because it was roughly the same price as adding a Raymarine dedicated RX only.
For those interested here is a list of the new kit that is actually being fitted at the moment.
4 off 12" Raymarine G series displays - 2 at each position.
2 off Raymarine G Series processors - each with a hard disk containing preloaded Navionics Platinium charts.
1 Radar scanner - and yes, we've managed to get one of the first digital ones available.
1 off digital sounder module (fish finder)
2 off wireless keyboards to control the whole system
1 off Comar AIS transponder
2 off GPS mushrooms (1 main GPS - and 1 for the AIS)
To make all this work, a full NMEA2000 bus is being installed along with the usual Seatalk and older NMEA interfaces.
A central PC is going also going to feed each of the 4 displays - these displays can take video a multitude of video feeds from various sources as well as the feed from the G Series processors. Three entirely separate distributions of Cat6 cables are being installed to distribute Video, Audio and PC networks throughout.
Coupled with the above, we are installing 60cm Satellite domes which I will also be feeding throughout the boat.
And to top it off, a WiFi antenna will distribute internet services to the PC and the boat's own internal WiFi service.
As you can appreciate, this is going to be a very sophisticated system. If anyone's interested, I will write up the full system later, once we have actually got everything working.
hlb
RIP
Not really interested, all big ships come up on radar. Missing them is only about going round the back, Or sneaking infront, if time. How does knowing there name help.
Been t o CI's umpteen times
In reality I can not envisage a Mobo hiting a ship, or a ship hitting a Mobo. Has it ever happened. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
Been t o CI's umpteen times
In reality I can not envisage a Mobo hiting a ship, or a ship hitting a Mobo. Has it ever happened. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
