so how often do you update your electronic charts?

[niccapotamus]

as part of my chartplotter vs tablet internal narrative - I decided that something should change, last week when we were using our old outdated paper charts of poole plus an up to date ipad navionics. mostly as the ipad is rubbish in direct sunlight.

but it's nice to have up to date (or fairly) charts - and looking at the price of up to date charts for plotters I wondered how many of us update the charts regularly anyway?

if that's the case then arguably it's just as good to have a clunky ipad than a fantastic but out of date chart on an e-plotter.

in the end i've gone for an android tablet on the basis that my phone was far better in sunlight than my ipad so I'm hoping a tablet will be nearly as good - and even without that i'll just have to keep it somewhere shady. but at least some of my charts will be up to date

(I'm also buying some up to date paper charts of poole as I was fairly horrified when I worked out how out of date mine were!)

anyway this is a question about chart plotter updates and not a critique of my out of date paper ones!

 

[[70521]]

My electronic charts have not been updated since 2010 according to the plotter. I am not planning to update them until 2022, planning a wee trip round the British Isles then, but my paper charts are corrected monthly. Paper being my primary aid to navigation.

 

[wizard]

With Navionics charts annual subscription you can update the plotter card, iphone and ipad daily if you want, as the charts invariably have updates most days.

 

[Lucky Duck]

Navionics charts come with a year's updates included in the price so I typically buy a new one every other year or so.

 

[NormanS]

When I first got a plotter and electronic charts, I found several instances where the charts were out of date with reality. In a relatively small area, of particular interest to me, there were at least two causeways, and one major road bridge to an island, which were not shown on the charts, but which had been built about ten years previously. The omission of the causeways made it look as if there was a clear passage between islands, which there now isn't, and obviously the bridge has headroom limitations for some vessels. If the chart makers can't be trusted to update major physical changes, why would I trust them with minor buoyage changes?

So to get back to the original question, as I sail in an area with few artificial aids to navigation, and the rocks seldom move, I have only once in ten years, updated my electronic charts.

 

[Yealm]

My electronic charts have not been updated since 2010 according to the plotter. I am not planning to update them until 2022, planning a wee trip round the British Isles then, but my paper charts are corrected monthly. Paper being my primary aid to navigation.

May I ask- how do the paper charts get updated monthly?

 

[Yealm]

When I first got a plotter and electronic charts, I found several instances where the charts were out of date with reality. In a relatively small area, of particular interest to me, there were at least two causeways, and one major road bridge to an island, which were not shown on the charts, but which had been built about ten years previously. The omission of the causeways made it look as if there was a clear passage between islands, which there now isn't, and obviously the bridge has headroom limitations for some vessels. If the chart makers can't be trusted to update major physical changes, why would I trust them with minor buoyage changes?

So to get back to the original question, as I sail in an area with few artificial aids to navigation, and the rocks seldom move, I have only once in ten years, updated my electronic charts.

Where is the causeway error?
That sounds pretty serious and surprising if in the UK- I’d like to check it on my electronic charts.

 

[prv]

May I ask- how do the paper charts get updated monthly?

Download a PDF of the corrections from either Admiralty or Imray websites as applicable, then go through and apply them with a fine-nibbed magenta pen.

I'm not as diligent as Sandy and only update my paper charts annually, in the early spring.

Pete

 

[Yealm]

Download a PDF of the corrections from either Admiralty or Imray websites as applicable, then go through and apply them with a fine-nibbed magenta pen.

I'm not as diligent as Sandy and only update my paper charts annually, in the early spring.

Pete

OMG I didn’t know that was even a thing! Total respect for your endeavour.

 

[GHA]

anyway this is a question about chart plotter updates and not a critique of my out of date paper ones!

Fred Rift alert.......

With opencpn as a plotter onboard updates in the RYA sense never get done... but for passage planning in a new area/double check known area then navionics on the web or in SASplanet gets used to check for anything which could ruin a day. Along with google earth sat images (can be reeeeeeeally handy, can any plotters display KAP images?). Then sometimes there are local country offerings (Like Spain - http://ideihm.covam.es/visor ) Or visitmyharbour in the frozen north. . Also marinetraffic density worth a look. Though all that less to do with updating charts in isolation, more to do with getting as much info as possible for passage planning.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I have a C-Map Card which came with the boat when I purchased in 2008. Apparently the card was original from 2003. Anyway, I contacted ChartCo in Southhampton and they stated they could still update the card. I also talked to Force 4 and they too could do it but the explanation was not clear on the process I had to follow compared to ChartCo.

The card was sent off and it transpired that the coverage on the card could not be updated as the coverage had now been split into two cards. They could update the original card but it would cover less area and supply a new one for the remaining area. I opted for this so that I could have the same coverage.

The cost of the updating my original card to one of one of the two areas was £99.60.
The cost of a new card for the balance of areas is £219.00.
Total cost - £318.60.

Costs were February 2018. I went ahead with the update so now have full coverage Scotland West, Clyde to Rhum [EW-C242] and Sound of Barra to Orkney Islands [EW-C240]

The point I am making is that older cards can be updated, but updates might not give you the same coverage on the older card.

At the end of the season, I plan to check with ChartCo if there are any updates and if so, do it again. I also bought a new portfolio of charts for the West Coast of Scotland which cost £1500 after discount.

Navigation wise, that's me up to date. Plan is to change out all instruments / plotters to a modern system after I do the sails.

Old boats!

 

[prv]

OMG I didn’t know that was even a thing! Total respect for your endeavour.

On a commercial ship the corrections come weekly and it's the Second Officer's job to apply them. Major undertaking for a ship with a wide area of operation and hence a large portfolio of charts for all over the world . Though of course a deep-sea Second Officer has many a long night watch to do the work in

Pete

 

[Yealm]

On a commercial ship the corrections come weekly and it's the Second Officer's job to apply them. Major undertaking for a ship with a wide area of operation and hence a large portfolio of charts for all over the world . Though of course a deep-sea Second Officer has many a long night watch to do the work in

Pete

I find that extraordinary!
Why don’t they just use electronic charts and update electronically? I bet the paper chart updates are full of transcription errors. Seems like a dangerous system. Easy to have electronic redundancy with backup plotters too.

 

[prv]

I find that extraordinary!
Why don’t they just use electronic charts and update electronically?

More and more do, of course.

I'd be interested to know what the proportion is, of certified ECDIS-only ships versus ones that use paper charts as their primary means, but I don't know if anyone collates that data.

(The second group can be subdivided into those that genuinely use paper charts as their primary means, and those that claim to for legal purposes but in practice use an uncertified plotter. I'm quite sure there are no statistics collected for that split ).

I find that extraordinary!
I bet the paper chart updates are full of transcription errors. Seems like a dangerous system.

No alternative for most of the last couple of centuries, though

Easy to have electronic redundancy with backup plotters too.

Indeed - as I understand it you're not allowed to go electronic-only unless you have two certified ECDIS systems (ECDIS ~= type-approved plotter for commercial shipping) and meet various requirements for redundancy of power supplies etc.

Pete

 

[prv]

Just for interest as an example, here's the corrections for the Imray folio of the West Country: [url]https://www.imray.com/files/chart_corrections/IC2400-5N.pdf[/url] . The current edition of that folio is from 2015, so this is three years of changes across 16 charts (albeit in an area of the country that changes slower than some).

Admiralty corrections are more or less similar, though with a little added bureaucracese and not split out by individual chart which I find slightly awkward compared to Imray.

Pete

 

[Yealm]

Just for interest as an example, here's the corrections for the Imray folio of the West Country: [url]https://www.imray.com/files/chart_corrections/IC2400-5N.pdf[/url] . The current edition of that folio is from 2015, so this is three years of changes across 16 charts (albeit in an area of the country that changes slower than some).

Admiralty corrections are more or less similar, though with a little added bureaucracese and not split out by individual chart which I find slightly awkward compared to Imray.

Pete

Wow I had no idea there were so many changes!
Oops some of my paper charts are 2004 (tho’ used only occasionally for passage planning, never for navigation).

Out of interest, who detects the chart errors/changes? Are there teams of surveying boats cosntantly going around UK waters, or is from reports by general public?

 

[[70521]]

May I ask- how do the paper charts get updated monthly?

Download a PDF of the corrections from either Admiralty or Imray websites as applicable, then go through and apply them with a fine-nibbed magenta pen.

I'm not as diligent as Sandy and only update my paper charts annually, in the early spring.

Pete

I find doing it monthly very therapeutic; if I left it any longer it would not get done.

 

[prv]

Out of interest, who detects the chart errors/changes? Are there teams of surveying boats cosntantly going around UK waters, or is from reports by general public?

Various sources, mostly correlated by the UK Hydrographic Office (part of the Navy) who the other publishers like Imray and Navionics buy the data from (though it's possible they also take updates from other sources as well).

The Royal Navy do still have an in-house surveying function, though I don't know how much of the UKHO input comes from them any more versus commercial survey contracts.

Harbour authorities sometimes commission their own surveys of their approaches, and hopefully pass the data on. Mostly commercial ports, but even Chichester Harbour does regular surveys of the Bar and entrance channel - here's their latest: http://www.conservancy.co.uk/assets...hichester_bar_survey_June_2018-OEqotiUB49.pdf

If you look at a real Admiralty chart (not their leisure publications) you will find a "source diagram" that shows where (and crucially, when) the data for each part of the chart came from. Some might be recent commercial port surveys, some might have been done with an early echo-sounder in the 1920s, and in remote places some areas might still be from a hand lead in the 19th century.

Apart from surveys, deliberate changes to buoyage and other aids to navigation should be notified by the people actually making the change - obviously it's inefficient for someone else to have to notice it.

And yes, you can send in "reports by general public" - there's a special UKHO form for doing so.

Hopefully AntarcticPilot will see this thread, since he has a lifetime's experience in this area and I'm sure can correct and expand on my rough idea above

Pete

 

[AntarcticPilot]

More and more do, of course.

I'd be interested to know what the proportion is, of certified ECDIS-only ships versus ones that use paper charts as their primary means, but I don't know if anyone collates that data.

(The second group can be subdivided into those that genuinely use paper charts as their primary means, and those that claim to for legal purposes but in practice use an uncertified plotter. I'm quite sure there are no statistics collected for that split ).



No alternative for most of the last couple of centuries, though



Indeed - as I understand it you're not allowed to go electronic-only unless you have two certified ECDIS systems (ECDIS ~= type-approved plotter for commercial shipping) and meet various requirements for redundancy of power supplies etc.

Pete

+1 for all of that, but also the whole ECDIS installation has to be approved, not just the individual bits and pieces that make the system up. So you can't just change things willy-nilly. I don't know what the process is for updating charts in an ECDIS system, but I bet it isn't as simple as going online and updating a memory card. There will be wasy of ensuring that changes to the data are approved. The equipment of ships is controlled in a manner more like that of avionics than that of our boats.

Basically, ECDIS is not often retro-fitted to a ship - it's a big cost, and ship-owners are seriously allergic to big costs after the initial purchase!

 

[NormanS]

Where is the causeway error?
That sounds pretty serious and surprising if in the UK- I’d like to check it on my electronic charts.

I did say that it was ten years ago. They were the causeways to Vatersay and Eriskay, and the bridge to Scalpay, all in the Outer Hebrides.