SNSM tariffs for towing

[grumpy_o_g]

I am interested because it soon became evident on the forum that little was known about the RNLI financial position.

For example when the little old lady leaves money to the RNLI (unless it is a specific demand) she supposes that she is contributing to the acquisition of a lifeboat.

In fact around 10% goes to boats and roughly as much goes on staff pensions.

It will be interesting to see if the RNLi - after Brexit - will continue to benefit from the same public generosity. It needs to because it is currently committed to a high fixed cost model.

That's about the percentage I'd expect - possibly higher actually. To spend more on boats when you have to invest to get ongoing costs covered would be pretty irresponsible. There finances are a matter of public record so I'm not sure where the idea that little was known about the RNLI financial position comes from - they might not have the fine detail or the exact amounts but most people on this forum have a reasonable idea I would think.

 

[dogleg]

Apart from the boat, any cleaning and maintenance round the station, receiving deliveries, dealing with visitors, admin and paper work, reporting to HQ, ordering consumables, checking time-limited items including medical equipment, compliance with statutory requirements. Is that enough?

update of IT systems including laser plots etc, charts, launching equipment, planned maintenance, etc if Sybarite thinks checking oil levels is all that is needed then I trust he knows more about his own field of accountancy than that statement said about what appears to be his idea of engine and boat upkeep BTW he hasn't said whether he thinks a full time coxswain and mechanic are administrators

 

[Sybarite]

Apart from the boat, any cleaning and maintenance round the station, receiving deliveries, dealing with visitors, admin and paper work, reporting to HQ, ordering consumables, checking time-limited items including medical equipment, compliance with statutory requirements. Is that enough?

Oh so we ARE talking about admin tasks after all...!!

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Oh so we ARE talking about admin tasks after all...!!

Any organisation has to have administration by definition - if it wasn't it wouldn't be an organisation, it would just be a random bunch of disparate and unconnected events, etc.

administration


NOUN

• 1mass noun The process or activity of running a business, organization, etc.
  ‘the day-to-day administration of the company’
  
  ‘a career in arts administration’
  • 1the administrationThe people responsible for running a business, organization, etc.‘the university administration took their demands seriously’

(https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/administration)

 

[[70521]]

I would love to know how that mechanic fills in his working day - every day??

Boats need to be serviced of course but apart from checking oil-levels after every shout what else is done day by day?

The SNSM has regional service centres with reserve boats. Also the crews are mainly made up of professional seamen: fishermen merchant marine etc who know very well how to maintain their own boats.

It should also be noted that the 58' SNSM CTT (AWB) has the same engines as the 46' Shannon and I suppose they are subject to the same service schedules.

The SNSM has an on-line service schedule for its boats to which all stations are hooked up.

Sir, with due respect, you are an accountant and if you are anything like all the accountants I have come across, remember I am married to one and worked for several years for E&Y, have little understanding of what goes on in the real world.

 

[NPMR]

03.00hrs. Cherbourg entrance. A few years ago now. Our c*ck up - complete electrical failure. No lights, GPS, engine start. Little wind.

After it was obvious we were not going to sort it ourselves and we were sailing, blind, up and down outside the marina, we called the marina up to ask if they could arrange a tow. "Oui" so we sailed, blind up and down for a short while longer and then 2 very cheery souls from SNMS in a powerful RIB found us and got us into a berth. The guys were fine seamen and really cheery considering the time of day and they'd left warm beds to come and sort us out. We joked that they were so cheerful because now they could afford the new car or house extension they needed, based on what the cost to us was going to be!

It took us 3-days to sort the boat and a nice time was had by us, which surprised us, as we were not expecting much from Cherbourg, but that's another matter.

Anyway, we tried really hard to get a bill for the tow. In the marina and the SNMS office/shed. Eventually, we told them, we have to go soon, so what is going to happen? We got the Gallic shoulder shrug and apart from a donation we made, that was the end of the matter for us. Nothing heard from them since. They had home addresses, boat name/Port, skipper name, insurance company details et al.

So we have fond memories of the SNSM, if we remain a little wary of a hefty charge.

 

[Mark-1]

we were sailing, blind, up and down outside the marina

I'm sure you're well aware, but in case anyone else isn't, there's nothing to stop you anchoring just outside the Marina. (Or rather, lots of people do so.) Maybe the Marina could have diverted a workboat for 10 minutes during the day to tow you in. Again, you probably realize, if winds were light you could even have used your own dinghy as a tug.

 

[dom]

I'm sure you're well aware, but in case anyone else isn't, there's nothing to stop you anchoring just outside the Marina. (Or rather, lots of people do so.)

This is indeed a designated anchorage. BUT it is right beside a zone controlled by the Port Militaire. Anchor in the wrong bit and they will DEFINITELY ask you to move and without an engine this could create all sorts of problems. Similarly, waft around in there for lack of wind and you will almost certainly get a visit - as pointed out to me recently by a fellow forumite the watch-tower is manned 24/7.

Basically: consult the chart, follow it precisely and DON'T impinge on their space

In the depth of night I'd say NMPR made the correct decision.

 

[NPMR]

I'm sure you're well aware, but in case anyone else isn't, there's nothing to stop you anchoring just outside the Marina. (Or rather, lots of people do so.) Maybe the Marina could have diverted a workboat for 10 minutes during the day to tow you in. Again, you probably realize, if winds were light you could even have used your own dinghy as a tug.

Ta for thoughts, but the problem for us was it was a strange port. With the arrival of daylight and an iPhone we got going, we now know we could have sailed onto the waiting pontoon, just inside the marina entrance, but at 3.00 am, we elected to get the tow, given our level of local knowledge. Or rather lack of.

In our home port, we would do things differently. The excitements of first visits to new harbours!

 

[Mark-1]

Ta for thoughts, but the problem for us was it was a strange port.

Yeah, I wasn't suggesting you'd got anything wrong, and I didn't doubt there would be good reasons why you made the calls you made. (You were there on the spot after all!)

Anchor in the wrong bit and they will DEFINITELY ask you to move.

Anchor in the wrong bit and, unless they're utter twassocks, they will probably offer you a quick tow in.

 

[dom]

Anchor in the wrong bit and, unless they're utter twassocks, they will probably offer you a quick tow in.

The military - especially these days - cannot really risk having their men playing boatmen to a decoy in the marina, while their station is left unprotected.

Also a heavily armed rib may not want to be lashed alongside a yacht a-la the Victory and Redoutable during the Battle of Trafalgar!

They'd probably just call the SNSM after a load of messing around with HQ?

 

[Mark-1]

The military - especially these days - cannot really risk having their men playing boatmen to a decoy in the marina, while their station is left unprotected.
Also a heavily armed rib may not want to be lashed alongside a yacht a-la the Victory and Redoutable during the Battle of Trafalgar!
They'd probably just call the SNSM after a load of messing around with HQ?

I would have thought if a they needed a yacht out the the way enough to deploy a Rib to ask it to move, then offering a tow would be the quickest and most reasonable way to achieve that. Hard to imagine the French Captain ordering: "Seaman Duval! For operational reasons we need that vessel to move out of the way immediately, but in no way must you help them to do so!"

Of course, I'm just surmising, I have no idea what standard military procedure is in such cases.

 

[Sybarite]

Sir, with due respect, you are an accountant and if you are anything like all the accountants I have come across, remember I am married to one and worked for several years for E&Y, have little understanding of what goes on in the real world.

I notice, with your enhanced technical knowledge, you did not address the points that I raised but rather spun out the usual uninformed caricature of the accountant.

PS : I have in the past rebuilt an engine for rallying.

 

[[70521]]

I notice, with your enhanced technical knowledge, you did not address the points that I raised but rather spun out the usual uninformed caricature of the accountant.

PS : I have in the past rebuilt an engine for rallying.

the points are rather simple, and ones that over the years I've stated.

A) diffrent countries with different business environments and cultures, my SNSM friends are extremely impressed with the way that the RNLI is funded and run (they have had a jolly to Poole). My friends at Devonport were less impressed when the RNLI took the production in house, but when you talk it over from a purely engineering perspective the decision was entirely logical and saved money.

B) The figures do not show the actual work done, just the cost of employing somebody to do the work. I've spent most of today helping another project with a problem and not working on the task I've got in hand. I can't charge the other project for the work I've done on it and still need to do the work on my own. The project reports won't show what I've done and the 20 days work that a discussion with a junior colleague has saved his project, but I can leave work a happy man.

C) Both the RNLI and SNSM have reserve boats, a sound engineering principle as you build in redundancy and saves the embarrassment of the call to the launch authority "I'm sorry we can't come out to rescue you today as the engine is out of the boat having its 5,000 hour service".

D) On-line servicing schedule, could be a lot of diffrent things. From a PDF manual to a full diagnostics check of the engine thus comments are difficult.

Nothing caricature about my view of accountants. I was recruited specifically to a large firm as they knew, what they did not know and bought my expertise and being married to one, it is based on empirical evidence.

Don't get me wrong accountants are brilliant at interpreting figures, I've seen a really good accountants look at a set of accounts and sum up a business back to the MD in about two minutes flat, but what they are not good at is understanding the reasons why things are done the way they are then overstep the mark and start suggesting changes to "improve the figures".

Hope the rallying was fun. Why anybody wants to drive a car, at speed, down a forest track is beyond me.

Oh, I am sure you will enjoy the new thread about the RNLI figures that has just started.

 

[robertj]

Just the opposite; commercial ventures cannot compete with the SNSM rates.

what if the RNLI financed a competitor to the french life boat? I would use it!

 

[Sybarite]

what if the RNLI financed a competitor to the french life boat? I would use it!

It's a legal issue in France relating to unfair competition.

 

[robertj]

I notice, with your enhanced technical knowledge, you did not address the points that I raised but rather spun out the usual uninformed caricature of the accountant.

PS : I have in the past rebuilt an engine for rallying.

what sort of engine?

 

[robertj]

It's a legal issue in France relating to unfair competition.

Are charities hampered by these legalities in France?

 

[Sybarite]

Are charities hampered by these legalities in France?

Yes.

 

[Sybarite]

what sort of engine?

Mini