Snap poll - Light Dues?

[BarryD]

Blah - blah - blah.

In a nutshell should boats be registered and charged for the use of NavAids. How should such a charge be collected? The wonderful RYA is fighitng our corner (but have neglected to tell us what stance they are intending to take).

Charged Yes / No?

IMHO - If a charge is applied then it is fair. I can't see how they would do it apart from compulsary SSR or the like. The river chaps have to pay a licence should the coastal types avoid it?

Methinks this is a can of worms - the Yotties seem to think that it is a liberty and unfair.

Commence discussion please....

Go left, YOUR OTHER left for pete's sake
(IMHO, BTW, FWIW and NWGOI)

 

[milltech]

Until that nasty recession appeared around 1990 I was running a big boat and I think I paid a light dues fee for her. I can't remember how much it was but I do recall it was from a certain weight up, "Andrea Ferrara" was 70 or 80 tons. It may be in place still for the larger craft, I think it was paid to Trinity House.

John

 

[tcm]

Re: No thanks

Damn, a whole long rant wasted on the other BB!

I would think that 9grand for every human in the uk is about enuf tax ta very much. In fact, far too much. So, vote for me and no income tax, all the dole peeps over 5'8" get made to be policemen, no speed limit twixt 12pm an 6 am on motorways, permanent BST so no miserable early evenings, and sack most of the policians esp the department of ed, dept of trade, scottish and welsh office, get out of NI to lettem fight it out and have done with it or invite UN peacekeepy force to do things, ahem. Also a special computer (a portable might suffice) for details of everyone, and no dole or benefits for silly people who perssitenly live miles from any jobs. Also no pensions ten years from today, and no child benefit from next year. Teachers to get lots more money but no school holidays, just a set of tickets for each child to collect like greenshield stamps and do exams when you like. Cars over 4litres will have special monster tax of five grand to makem a bit more exclusive, but not get done for speeding cept in towns near kiddies where 10mph limit with loads of narrow roads and humps. Free tube travel, and rail travel as long as you're going to work, but it'll still be slowish, and anyway it'd only make a difference to scotland. Red diesel will be eventually taxed in line with europe, but new blue-coloured fuel will be invented called Esso Blue and will have a bit of margarine added to it so it isn't technically diesel, and so no tax onnit.

No tax on navaids, allowing people to set of in a bathtub or even a homemade rib and nearly killem selves, or indeed killem selves. Navaids currently not paid for, and anyway everyone sensible gets a gps and a chart. RNLI give discretionarty powers to turn up on boats going too fast in cowes harbour and give skipper a hard time, wasting their whole afternoon.

 

[BarryH]

The ditch crawlers pay a fee for the up keep of the waterway, lock repairs and staffing of said locks, well some of em any way. The nav aids around our coastline are more for the merchant ships to navigate safely rather than us amateur seaman. In saying that I paid my harbour dues to PHC and I an sure that I saw them working on some bouys out in the fairway.

In short, the merchant ships pay Trinity House a fee and we pay our harbour dues. So in a round about way. We are paying for them. Or have I got it totally wrong?

Mmmmm. When you break it. You break it big time!!

 

[kimhollamby]

20 registered tons and higher, but even in this report it seems the authorities cannot quite work out whether they are collecting the fees or not from the people they can legitimately charge.

Far more fun in the same report is the fact that it reveals only about 40,000 craft on Part 1 register, another 40,000 on SSR and around 100,000 using the Coastguard CG66 scheme (most of those duplicates I suspect). Boatmark less than 10,000 all up. Elsewhere it touts that wonderful old 3m-4m craft in use in UK stat that I suspect gets dusted off every time we want to impress some government minister or other.

kim_hollamby@ipcmedia.com

 

[jfm]

heresy, but it is the 21st century

wot on earth is the point of buoys and cardinals when GPS plotters with 3m accuracy are 10-a-penny? They're defunct. In fact for small boats like ours doing 20kts at night they're a damn nuisance because in a channel one small lapse of concentration and you hit em. No, far from collecting dues to pay for em, just scrap the whole bleedin lot and invest any spare £££ in satellites

 

[BarryH]

Re: Na! Sorry dont agree....

...with you on that. Theres no substitute, electric ot not, for giving you a firm fix. I doubt whether the east coat chaps would agree either. Navigation isn't a science, its a good estimated guess taking the variables into account. GPS does'nt take into account shifting sandbanks and the like.

Don't mean to go on, You can flame away now, I've got the wifes knickers to hand. Nothing gets through them!!

Mmmmm. When you break it. You break it big time!!

 

[ToMo]

If yer snap the bl**dy pole yer wont see any lights anyway!!!

 

[tcm]

Re: East coasties

You're right that the east coasties wdn't agree. They're on the east coast coast cos nice and cheap. Or, by being on the east coast they are CONGENTIALLY cheap, possibly due to closer proximity of Moscow. The boats are leaky, the gps old, and they sail to sea in a sieve. Far and few, far and few, are the navaids that give a true fix.

 

[BarryH]

Re: East coasties

Thats wot I said, "Navigation is a good guesstimate". You will never get a "True fix". But anything to give a good fix from various sources is in a way self checking. If you know the position of a Bouy then you can check that gps is giving correct info. All I'm saying is that you cant rely on leccy position fixing alone. Or doesn't it ever go wrong?

Mmmmm. When you break it. You break it big time!!

 

[tcm]

the First Way

Usually, gpsdoesn't ever go wrong. But just in case it does, I have more than one.

Likewise, for other items that you (and you alone) are responsible for, you have backup: food in tins and in the freezer, house keys, clothes, engines in an offshore boat, alarm clock to wake you up if it's important. All these items and many others are not catered for by the Welfare State and all seem to be managed fine and dandy by you, me, and everyone else. Whereas most things that ARE managed by HMG are sadly, total shite.

 

[BarryH]

Re: the First Way

Ummm! Too many variables here methinks. Gps does and will go wrong, maybe not your units, but the sats/system itself. There was a thread on Povertystricken a while ago about "dead" spots where there was no or spurious signals. In general I think that we all rely on electric nav aids too much. Leecy lat/long, leccy charts, leccy radar see in the fog. It can all go wrong, not often I grant you.

And as far as a frezzer goes.. I wish, all I've got is the wifes cold arse in the sleeping bag!!

Mmmmm. When you break it. You break it big time!!

 

[BarryD]

ALmost agree..

TCM for President, however could we make the monster tax on big cars start at say, oh, 4.7 litres for instance?

Go left, YOUR OTHER left for pete's sake
(IMHO, BTW, FWIW and NWGOI)

 

[tcm]

Re: the First Way

There was a thread about it, seemed that people decided that it went off when they went near warships. Total crap, of course. Either it works completely in a particular (massive) area, or it doesn't. I don't understand why people have this worry of relying on lectronics "too much". They depend on the engines "totally" and the hull not hitting things "totally" but because the gps is a bit komplicated they say ooer best nopt depened on that and use a pencil and paper.

And I wonder what's so fab about the alternatives? Do gps doubters have two charts, the spare one in case the first blows away? Arethey sure enough about their nav so that if the target navaid has come adrift they realise the fact very quickly? Not usually.

 

[tcm]

Re: ALmost agree..

policy still not finalised on that one so plenty of time ;-)

 

[BarryH]

Re: the First Way

Yes agree with you there, but does it not make you a better driver if you understand how the car works! Umm probably not a good analogy. Er.... if you know how the thing is giving you your position then it gives a clearer pic in your head as to whats going on....sort of.

Todays lectronics much superior that 10 or 15 years ago, the tv was always going wrong when I was a kid.

Anyhow theres far more to navigation than just knowing where you are. Its a damn good start tho. And i probably am as guilty as the next for taking what the various bits of kit are telling me for "read". Somehow I don't see me winning you over so..er I'll shut up!

Mmmmm. When you break it. You break it big time!!

 

[tcm]

Re: navigation

There's not very much more to navigation than knowing where you are, in fact, hardly anything. If you know where you are, wait a few minutes and you know where you are again AND where you've been, which gives close indication of where you're going relative to where you wanted to go. That's it.

 

[hlb]

Re: the First Way

Tutt's makes loads of mistakes with paper and pencil method and not really sure how pencil works. Telly on dash board seems to work oK though and just press button to go home. Much better than falling about with pencil, ruler and bits of paper, Oh and the rubber.

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn

 

[Guest]

tcmCC anyone?

Seems like the tcm Certificate of Competence would be much easier to get than that troublesome ICC thingy. Just need to know stuff like where your a*sehole is, and which way is up. Anyone know how widely accepted it is?

 

[hlb]

Re: tcmCC anyone?

Nowt much more to know about navigating than where you are. Except maybe knowing where your going to. But then you wouldn't have set off and got to where you are, unless you new that??

No one can force me to come here-----------
----- I'm a Volunteer!!!

Haydn