Small boat passage planning Chi. to Bembridge

[FairweatherDave]

I've finally got into action provoked by a comment on the Langstone thread on PBO forum, (tidal mooring = against tide both ways) .........infact having been mulling my problem over since the summer... it is really a basic question so apologies if it seems naive

With an Emsworth tidal mooring (Chichester) if I am going out the harbour west to Bembridge I need water to get to the boat. I try to get to the boat as early in the flood as I can so I am ready to leave say 2 hours before high water earliest. Sailing against the flood is okay but slow (6hp outboard is really only for tight manoevering or windless etc) . Make the West pole if I am lucky perhaps an hour before high water to catch the west going tide. But with the wind from the south west say (force4) its slow work getting towards Bembridge. My particular problem (with a 22ft boat and four kids) is now I have wind against tide so sea state is quite lively (for the boat). With a lifting plate we can get into Bembridge near low water but its the sea state the children found uncomfortable. Last summer it took 4.5 hours on both occasions and was a slog (although I really enjoyed it I'm not sure the family did).

My question is how could I optimise my passage planning? Would going West against a rising tide be a smoother but equally long passage? I have read recent posts about the Chichester bar but in say a force 3 (SW) I could go out at low water if I had got my boat from her mooring earlier and waited off East Head. . (Both my tidal atlases don't show great detail between Chi and Bembridge). What rules of thumb can I use to minimise use of the motor.
Thanks in advance for replies.
Dave
PS I would add normally we just go to East Head for the children's benefit (topical??).

 

[dmmbruce]

It looks as though you have thought it al out pretty well.

 

[fireball]

Your main problem seems to be lack of access to the boat ...
West Pole to Bembridge Entrance is 7.5Nm - so with 22' @ 3.7 knots average it is going to take 2 hours straight line.
Ideally you need to get off the mooring sooner - so it may mean coming down the day before and moving the boat to a deeper water mooring - or anchoring.

The SW wind is a bum - and there is very little you can do about it - it effectively doubles the distance you need to sail - so 15Nm to do 7.5Nm straight line - which corresponds roughly with your 4.5hours ...

Motor sailing with the main (and motoring cone) up can take a lot off this as you can get far closer to wind - I know you say 6hp isn't up to much, but it is reasonable for the size boat I would think - and if you can achieve 3 knots you're still in just over 2 hour territory ...

With the family I would say the main thing to do is ensure they enjoy it - otherwise they'll find something they'd rather do and you can forget your hobby!

 

[FairweatherDave]

Thanks dmmbruce. It seems its wind against tide conditions or against wind and tide.....

Thanks Fireball. Yes access is the issue and the desire to avoid the motor. But if I was on a deepwater mooring instead when would be the best time to maximise the tides? I seem to recall it is 2 hours before HW. Obviously springs and neaps make a difference but I guess as you say the SW wind is the issue. Maybe I need to prioritise that higher so to speak... . Trying not to overdo it with the family means overnighting at East Head but it is good to get a bit further afield when you can. Trouble is the weather doesn't always agree with our time slots.

But back to a key part of my question. Do I go for Wind against tide and accept the rougher ride (and motor-sail for speed)? Or is to go against a modest tide and the wind for a smoother sea state really too slow. (Apologies if it sounds like I'm asking someone else to do the calcs, what I am really asking is how different would the sea state be)
Thanks for all replies
PS On reflection the idea of Bembridge in just over 2 hours does sound a lot better for the kids. Might have to get another petrol tank.

 

[chriscallender]

Ah you reminded me, this is one of the reasons that I moved my boat to central Solent (Hamble first now Southampton). Got fed up of heading for Bembridge, getting there late and ending up anchored in Priory Bay again and again. Which doesn't really answer the question.

I'd say its better to go with the tide, even if that means wind against tide. Going with both wind and tide against you is going to make it an even worse slog, and I don't think the sea state will be *that* much better in the end to justify it.

 

[oldharry]

Firstly forget it if the wind is SW. Its 7.5nm to Bembridge straight line from the Bar. With a SW breeze its four or five times as far!

Now, I have a cunning plan when I want to go to Bembridge and the wind is not helping. I go OUT with the tide. That means its helping you all the way down (my boat is in Prinstead so its much the same distance - about an hour to the Bar), and pushes you quite quickly out in to the Solent. If there is a South wind, I head towards the forts. This means the sea calms down as I go west, so the final bit of engine slog is in relatively calm water. You then arrive in Priory Bay and wait for enough water to get in to Bembridge.

If the wind is West, then I head out towards Bembridge ledge buoy, but the ebbing Solent tide carries me west - towards Bembridge, and once again the final uphill leg under power is in sheltered water. It also means you arrive in Bembridge on a rising tide so no problems if there isnt quite enough water. You do of course have to take care the wind is not such that Chi Bar is getting too nasty - even in F4 with the ebb it can get quite lumpy and unpleasant. However it doesnt usually build except in strong wind conditions until about HW +1.5 or so, giving plenty of time for a decent sail across.

 

[Fantasie 19]

Firstly forget it if the wind is SW. Its 7.5nm to Bembridge straight line from the Bar. With a SW breeze its four or five times as far!

Now, I have a cunning plan when I want to go to Bembridge and the wind is not helping. I go OUT with the tide.

That's what I do when I venture out... go out on the ebb of the first tide, come in on the flow of the next... trouble is those weekends where the tide is 0700/0800 & 1900/2000 are few and far between... and then there's the weather....

It's one of the advantages of a mooring in Langstone I suppose (which despite the other thread is a lovely harbour, and does have it's good points ) better angle for the IoW in a SW'ly ... and tide assisted you'd come out like a cork from a champagne bottle!

 

[VicS]

Like Old Harry I have a drying mooring at Prinsted. (C3)

The first snag is that I cannot get away from the yard slip way until 2 hours before high water.

If doing the trip on the top one one tide then there is no hanging about anywhere. It usually means motoring to the harbour entrance and very often motoring or motor sailing all the way to Bembridge ( 6 HP Evinrude Yachtwin and a 25 litre fuel tank)

Better plan is to get way at least from the yard if not from the mooring on the previous tide. Ideally anchor at E. Head in order to be outside the harbour when the next tide turns west going. Stand some chance then of sailing across even with a W or S.W wind

Not sure I really understand your question about wind and tide. Generally you have to go with the tides although you can make a slower passage against the tide provided you are not tacking to windward. It is next to impossible to make progress against wind and tide.

Return trip from Bembridge is best done over low water ... leave on the last of the tide from Bembridge and enter Chichester while the tide is rising again and be carried by it up to the mooring. Usually possible, if not necessary, to anchor for a while to kill a bit of time . Priory bay for breakfast or lunch perhaps.

 

[FairweatherDave]

Hi Vic

"Not sure I really understand your question about wind and tide. Generally you have to go with the tides although you can make a slower passage against the tide provided you are not tacking to windward. It is next to impossible to make progress against wind and tide."

That's the area I was really exploring. The basic principle of using the tides versus (When going west from Chichester) the probability of wind over tide, which from my (very average) dinghy sailing, is also best avoided. I guess bigger boat, deeper water, wind over tide is less of an issue than the tide.

Also I was keen to get others' passage plan tips 'cos from Chichester with a single night away there are not too many options going out the harbour (bearing in mind my crew's limitations). Appreciate your input, Old Harry's and Chris and Fantasie's too.
cheers
Dave

 

[minnitt]

I would place emphasis on wind against tide chop only on the exit from Chi harbour.
So if possible and wind is from just S of SW to just S of SE I would want to go out an hour or two after low water to an hour after high water. Provided of course wind strength permits.
If tides are springs then with your size of boat and engine, it would be best to go out either just after low water or at high water.
If neaps then exit whenever but to avoid the worst of the adverse tide tuck well into the Hayling Island shore (you can go very far inshore but take care to avoid the fishermen on the beach!) where you will benefit either from a tide shadow caused by the spit which is developing at East Stoke Point or from an actual tidal eddy. Dont forget to go east of the red buoy at East Stoke Point. Then over towards the West Pole sands until the West Pole Bcn & the Bar Bcn & East Stoke Bcn are lined up. Use that as your transit until you are past the Bar Bcn and the worst of the shallows.
Motor or motorsail - don't tack out of the harbour cos you will go into the worst of the tide.
Once south of West Pole Bcn tide is not much of an issue until you reach the main channel which is much nearer the IOW shore. There the tide runs SE to NW from 2 hrs before HW Portsmouth for about 6 hrs. I.e. the tide in the main channel runs at about 90 degrees to your desired track from WPB to Bembridge tide guage and to the wind if it is SW.
In short if tides are neaps I would exit the harbour at, say, one or two hours before HW. If springs exit at start of HW (there is quite a stand at springs).
Then assuming a SW wind, beat S towards the Nab Tower, lee-bowing whatever tide there is.
Make your decision whether to tack or not and if so when, when you approach the main channel.
Others will probably point out something I have missed or where I have got it wrong but that is what I often do when going from Chi to Bembridge.
Michael Minnitt

 

[SailBobSquarePants]

Ah you reminded me, this is one of the reasons that I moved my boat to central Solent (Hamble first now Southampton). Got fed up of heading for Bembridge, getting there late and ending up anchored in Priory Bay again and again. Which doesn't really answer the question.

Totally agree - Chichester is nice if you want to do daysailing in the estuary, but it just isn't that convenient to get into the Solent, not with the bar dictating your entrance, and even worse with a tidal mooring. It IS do-able, but a pain. I remember beating up and down the coast for three hours waiting for the tide, because I had stubbornly tried to sail rather than motor home, and just missed the tide to get over the bar. Now I just fire up the motor a lot earlier if against the wind...not very pure, but hanging around the Beacon for a few hours isn't really fun.

Will strongly consider the Solent for next year, IF I keep the boat...

 

[FairweatherDave]

Belated thanks Minnitt, great detail I suspect for next season now. Will relax a bit on the wind against tide issue.

Fireball's advice on motor-sailing lead to a good experiment this weekend off East Head, inside the harbour. Trying to beat against the tide in full ebb was inevitably pointless so tried a motor sail (port mounted outboard on port tack)....
given the wind and my tender boat the prop was soon out the water, so it was sails down quick. The other tack would have been fine. All part of the learning curve (never needed that motoring cone thingy)

Fab weekend inside the harbour with big springs. (Lots of mud justified my choice of lifting centre-plate boat completely). We are more day-sailors than anything else. But we over-nighted it at Chaldock Point trying for a peaceful night with the NE wind. Any suggestions where else might have been a calm spot to dry out with that wind direction (other than my Emsworth mooring)? (Apols for thread drift)

 

[emsworthy]

Dinghy Launching?

Dave,

As your window of opportunity seems to be restricted by access to the boat rather than draft have you thought about where you are launching from?

We are on a swinging mooring just up from Fishermen's PHM in the Emsworth Channel and can get to the boat at least HW +/-3 and have done HW-4 on neaps. If we can't get over the Fisherman's Walk with the outboard from Emsworth Sailing Club (can tell by the height of water on the "log" leaning against the withy) then we drag the dinghy around the sea wall to the beach next to the short stay pontoon. There is nearly always enough water to launch and recover there well after the club slipways lead to mud only.

Our dinghy has wheels so this is fairly easy but whatever it might be worth the effort if you can extend your sailing day/tidal window.

PM me if you want any further info.

Tim

 

[lw395]

I would not plan a trip on the basis of using an outboard for over 2 hours, it would drive me mad.
In a SW wind, I would leave Chi harbour around HW, the current will then be going west.
I would head west along the Portsmouth shore, then tack across to the Island as the west going tide is decreasing.
Obviously draft getting into Bembridge is key. In a bigger boat, you would be waiting longer in Priory Bay.
Alternative is to overnight in Portsmouth or Cowes and then come back on the tide. Or in nice weather, on the moorings outside Seaview.
It's not much fun fighting the tide in a small boat, better to work with as much as you can.

 

[Seajet]

I think most of the 'tactics' have been covered, and as so often it's dinghy access which is the problem ( PM me if you want to know about a much better, good value set-up surprisingly close to you !).

As a 'treat' ( bribe ) for wife and kids, how about either a long weekend, or yourself and chum, pre-positioning the boat in Northney Marina the day before ?

You'd need a good forecast as it's not cheap even at 22', and not the most scenic of marinas, but good facilitities, full tidal access, and the Ship Inn & Royal Oak are within say 15 ish minutes walk across the bridge serving good food ( top tip, look at menu not prominent specials board ! ).

On Wednesday & Saturday evenings and Sat'& Sun' lunch Langstone SC on the bridge is open, informal and friendly - but simple food only on Sat' lunches.