Sleepability

[pugwash]

I have just read with amazement in April YM James's review of the new Legend 41. Here is a 39-ft boat costing around around £120,000 to get to sea and when you get there it will be impossible to sleep. By that I mean there are no sea-berths. The double bunk in the aft stateroom is athwartships, so not much good on either tack. The forward stateroom has a double bunk which would sleep one person at sea and only on a port tack. The big sofa, James raves about (I'm not criticising his review by the way, only the boat) is not long enough sleep on, nor is the dinette arrangement opposite. So much for "stress-free cruising with home-from-home comforts" as James puts it.

Think about it. Your own kids might share a bedroom readily enough but would they share a (small) double bed? And what if the owner decides to take three friends for a trip to Cherbourg. Which of the Scuttlebutters we all know and love would we want to doss down with?

There are other extraordinary points, like the cooker that's stuck on top of the workbench just where you'd want to put the washing up. And no liferaft in sight. But it does have red "courtesy lighting" (thank you James!)on the stairs. What next?

I have to declare that I'm no lover of AWBs, and anyway I could never afford one, but this takes the biscuit. Why would anyone buy a boat for cruising in which it was impossible to sleep at sea? I know this is not the only example of that ilk.

You could haul out my own 30-footer and park it on this boat's cabin table, but at least mine has four secure and comfortable sea-berths.

Would someone please explain to me the rationale for vessels of the Legend 41 sort?

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[Chris_Robb]

weekend bon.....

king shop = not designed to go beyond the solent. If you do then you'll have to do it standing up - like the French.

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[bedouin]

I'm not a fan of the "AWB" concept, but these manufacturers are not fools. They produce the boats that the public want to buy at a price they are prepared to pay for them.

This style of boat meets the use of a large proportion of the sailing population - that is day sailing only between marinas (or occasionally anchorages) where accurate weather forecasts mean that they are unlikely to be at sea in conditions they are not happy with. So the emphasis is on good accommodation in the marina. Heavy weather performance, and even sea berths, come a distant second because most people simply don't need them.

I imagine that if you do a survey of people on this board you will find that most of us (excluding Jimi of course) rarely sleep when underway, so for the majority of the buying public, particularly at the budget end of the range, having good sea-berths is not a priority.



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[billmacfarlane]

The rationale for boats like the Legend is very simple. They make a lot of money for the companies that make them because they are making what the majority of the sailing fraternity want. My own personal view, and I hope nobody is offended, is that the boat is ugly, the interior impractical for a sail of more than 12 hours, and it sails like a hippopotamus. But it'll probably sell by the bucketful so what do I know ?

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[LadyInBed]

My double bunk in the aft ‘stateroom’ is athwart ships, I quite like sleeping on a gentle slope.

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[Fill]

I think you need to read James' review very carefully, he says of the boat, "for enjoying the sea, the coastline and its harbours".

Read carefully and nuff said.

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[Twister_Ken]

Never mind the bunks - you get a microwave - that'll please the wimminfolk.

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[pugwash]

Weekend congress ?

Further to all this, I have always wondered why you'd want only double bunks in any boat, even if you're only weekending in marinas. Are we that desperate for weekend congress, and in an environment where every squeak, every lurch, is felt by everyone aboard? If you're young, a single bunk is adequate. If you're getting on a bit, can't you wait for the privacy of Monday?

Double bunks mean everyone has to share, be they children or a bunch of driking chums. And everyone will be unhappy. I know, as Bill says, this is the kind of boat that will sell because it's what people want. But why they'd want it beats me. I'd go for half a dozen single bunks any day.

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[Robin]

Re: Weekend congress ?

I think it is partly because of the age of the prospective buyers, likely to be when the kids have left home and cruising now as a couple, with occasional guests, also usually couples, who appreciate their own cabin. As for your comments about those of us of a certain age and weekend activities, I can assure you that some of us much prefer the company of our SWMBO to some hairy drunks cadging a free ride, and WE cruise every weekend and for longer periods up to 5 weeks so appreciate ALL the comforts of home! /forums/images/icons/blush.gif

Personally I love night sailing and we have proper sea berths (3) but our layout now is basically Owners Double Cabin forward, Guest Double Cabin aft, the main cabin berths are normally unused. In practice we sail 99% of the time as a couple, in great comfort, we have no need to provide accomodation for a collection of singles.

This is by way of a suggested explanation for their marketing, not an approval of the boat which I personally do not like, nor indeed am I a fan of others in the range. However they must have something people want and like, or Hunter Legends would not be so popular. I just hope nobody confuses them with our Sun Legende from Jeanneau which is a very different beast indeed!

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[pugwash]

Re: Weekend congress ?

I'm with you on the SWMBO front! The point is, you do have sea berths that you an use when needed. The Legend does not. First thing I'd do if I won something like this in a lottery is make trotter boxes so the saloon settees could be used. I see the sense in what you say, but I do find it strange.

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[peterb]

Microwave

The microwave is interesting in itself. Even the smallest, by the time you take efficiency into account, will have a 12 volt draw approaching 100 amps. Yet this boat is sold with only a single 110 Ah battery. Do much cooking with that under sail and you'll be sailing into the marina with an engine that can't be started because of the flat battery.

Or is it a mains-only cooker? Only for use in a marina?

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[ongolo]

Re: Weekend congress ?

Why do people want it? Is it because that advertising tells them what they want??

Some of this tupperware is ridiculous.

ongolo


<hr width=100% size=1>1000 dream about it, 100 talk about it, 10 start and 1 completes it

 

[MANICA]

can't really fault your argument - a few years back I chartered a legend of this scale for the round the island race - we had a good day out but there's no way this would have been my choice for a long distance cruiser. Typically american - all front and no trousers.

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[Peppermint]

Re: A Legend ain\'t an AWB

They are a seperate species.

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[roger]

Re: Weekend congress ?

Many years ago my wifs and I went looking at boats at a Boat Show and went on board some. We went instantly up to the sharp end to see what is like to work on. The Salesmen were amazed. The expected everyone to get down belos immediately and try out the beds - they did have to make strenuous attempts to stop them using the heads!
People buying or at least viewing new boats seem to have very little experience of using them.

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[MainlySteam]

I have no reason to stick up for AWB's as we do not have one. However, I suspect the vast majority of sailboat owners only coastal cruise at most, and even then most nights are spent at anchor or in a marina. I see no reason whatsoever why boats should not be put on the market to meet this majority need. The alternative of building all yachts so that they are capable of cosy sleep in a F10 is not tenable.

Anyway, what is all this about sleepability - I have difficulty staying awake on a boat at night under any circumstance /forums/images/icons/smile.gif.

John

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[Twister_Ken]

I have difficulty staying awake on a boat at night under any circumstance

In the UK this is known to the medprofs as Yachtmaster syndrome, or to the ordinary mortal as a 'bad case of the Jimi's' It can be thoroughy debilitating – for the rest of the crew that is –and even put their lives in danger when, for example, the owner, reluctant to disturb the guests' repose, hesitates to tack and ends up ramming the Isle of Wight instead.

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[MainlySteam]

Can I get a Yachtmaster's just on the basis of my sleeping experience? You know, along the lines I have slept soundly for 10,527 nights (or whatever) on board a yacht - maybe one could get a silver star or something if a proportion of those have been in the trying situation of doing them on an AWB.

John

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[Aeolus_IV]

May be the trick is to leave your log in and instruments on when moored in a tidal area, then all those "miles" will be quietly clocked up while you're pushing up the Z's. Perhaps not the fast track to a YM, but certainly less effort.

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Jeff.

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[temptress]

I think I count as 'wimminfolk' but I wouldn't know what to do with a microwave on a boat - the ancient one in the kitchen at home makes a great breadbin though.

Susie

<hr width=100% size=1>Temptress of Down
Southsea Marina
Hants
UK