Judders
Well-Known Member
Exactly which bit?
Six pages of Audi Advert??? You can keep it!
- Thread starter aquaholic
- Start date
Exactly which bit?
Theshipscat
Well-Known Member
Cow tow and editorials for Landrover and Bavaria.
Blueboatman
Well-Known Member
If WHICH magazine turned their attention to boats....
In the USA such a thing exists, it is called 'Practical Sailor' and imo is very,very good-and good value though slim.
So you pays yer money and you have a choice: Ad nauseam/fantastic offerings of auto-what-have-you, or no adverts and a much harder hitting editorial/ investigative style..
Clearly the market is such as to be able to support both.
In the USA such a thing exists, it is called 'Practical Sailor' and imo is very,very good-and good value though slim.
So you pays yer money and you have a choice: Ad nauseam/fantastic offerings of auto-what-have-you, or no adverts and a much harder hitting editorial/ investigative style..
Clearly the market is such as to be able to support both.
Tin Tin
Well-Known Member
Is the a UK equivalent of Practical Sailor? (Or even a boaty version of WHICH)
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Well there may be a future for the brands online... but I wouldnt make the mistake of thinking that this will replace the traditional printed product or even a "Digital" version of the printed product.
The clear advantage of the printed product is that there is a very clear model as to how to earn a profit.. (And make no mistake, there are still substantial profits being made.. even the Evening Standard has now become profitable btw...)
Many publishers made the mistake of thinking that they could just transfer their existing products directly to the internet... ignoring the problem that there is no clear method of earning a profit with the existing product online.
The internet is a different beast to the printed product... and you need a different earnings model to get a profit from it. Unfortunatley there has yet to emerge a earnings model that allows you to simply take what you do in print and transfer this onto a website and still make a profit.
So, we need to stop thinking in terms of the content/platform and start thinking about using the goodwill built up in the brands to build additional/new products on the new platform that is the internet....
The existing magazines and content need to be supported and their profitability exploited.... but the internet requires a entirely new product, and not at the expense of the magazines.... (Which if properly supported will continue to generate good profits.)
There have been several threads recently which have crystalized the problems faced by publishers....
1) Online users here are totally unwilling to pay for content.
2) Online users here expect a high quality original product.
3) Online users here think that this site , and all the "Social" content produced adds value to IPC and the magazines.
The fact is the above are mutualy exclusive items that cannot be reconciled..
If your not willing to pay for content, you will not get high quality, (Its REALLY expensive to produce...) and as recent studies and surveys (Edlemens in particular.. see this blog.. http://pageonephotography.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/is-the-worm-starting-to-turn/ ) show... trust in social content is taking a nail, and is largley held in disdain by the average consumer... so, it actually has very little value.
But, until a new model emerges, (And the only viable one that I see has to involve user-pay) do not expect high quality journalism on-line in any substantial quantities... and I will go further still... I would not be in the least surprised if major brands do not retrench their positions and reduce their internet presence.
Magazines and newspapers will continue to be published in the traditional way.
In 2009 Associated(Daily Mail) newspapers profits were the 2nd highest in their history... despite the downturn..
The Brands may move to a online product... but your online experience will be very different from your printed product...(if you are not willing to actually pay for the content directly... dont expect to get the best high quality orginal journalims as part of that experience.)
There is a problem right now in that both consumers and publishers are confused... so we are seeing a fall in quality of the traditional products.. and confusion in terms of the online strategies...
Until this confusion clears... and Murdoch and co are helping do so... we will not really get the best from either format.
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
In the US maybe... but not in the UK... the market is too small.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Well, at least one online magazine site works very well - The Register. This is specialized (you won't know it if you're not in the IT world), highly regarded and keeps up a generally good standard of investigative journalism. It allows forum-style user interaction with it's content - sometimes that is better than the article! It is very clearly NOT influenced by advertisers - it regularly slags off Microsoft and Apple, both of whom advertise on it.
The Register has never existed in print. So, my point is that there is a viable model for online magazines which obviously works. Most journalism on the Register is freelance, I think, but none the worse for that.
T
timbartlett
Guest
The same applies to print media.
When I was on the staff of magazines, I used to have frequent arguments with ad sales staff who would tell me that I shouldn't have said so and so because one of their customers wouldn't like it. You can't blame them for trying, but I don't think it ever made any difference. Maybe that's just because I'm a stroppy bugger.
But I still got phone calls, letters, and emails from readers complaining because I hadn't slagged off a product enough for their taste, and letters, phone calls and emails from manufacturers whingeing because I had slagged off an outstanding product.
The funny thing is that I often got both kinds of calls about the same product!
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
The Register is a great site..... but as has been pointed out by others it is also very niche... and has a very large reach.
So... it presents very good value for advertisers.
Plus, the costs associated with producing the content are quite low... there is a very large amount of pressa rehashing with added comment going on... (If as you say its largley freelance based... then their costs are gonna be really really low...... !)
The broad basis consumer publishers simply cannot produce targeted readership such as the register... and the content costs tend to be much higher... (Not a lot of picces on the registers site!)
It may be that there will be some brands that can make something like the register work for them.... other specialised magazines do as well... (BJP is a good example..) But it doesnt work for the mainstream.
So... it presents very good value for advertisers.
Plus, the costs associated with producing the content are quite low... there is a very large amount of pressa rehashing with added comment going on... (If as you say its largley freelance based... then their costs are gonna be really really low...... !)
The broad basis consumer publishers simply cannot produce targeted readership such as the register... and the content costs tend to be much higher... (Not a lot of picces on the registers site!)
It may be that there will be some brands that can make something like the register work for them.... other specialised magazines do as well... (BJP is a good example..) But it doesnt work for the mainstream.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Can't have been that obvious
I bought another one. (Darglow Featherstream)The one useful statement was that folding props are more complex and hence more likely to go wrong.
What do I expect? Have an informed opinion and express it. Don't see the point in paying for a lot of um-ing and ah-ing.
Reading between the lines? Must require a microscope - call a spade a spade.
Phoenix of Hamble
Well-Known Member
I don't have time to repond to Photodog's excellent post yet in detail... I will do later...
suffice to say that on his core points of
- magazines cannot just transfer their journalistic efforts from printed to online - I agree entirely
- 1) Online users here are totally unwilling to pay for content.
2) Online users here expect a high quality original product.
3) Online users here think that this site , and all the "Social" content produced adds value to IPC and the magazines.
are all mutually exclusive items... I disagree entirely...
The model has changed.... its about relationships and harvesting knowledge about your users.... and thats where the future lays.... know enough, and your revenue opportunities become so significant that you CAN afford the high class journalism.... its a virtuous circle...
suffice to say that on his core points of
- magazines cannot just transfer their journalistic efforts from printed to online - I agree entirely
- 1) Online users here are totally unwilling to pay for content.
2) Online users here expect a high quality original product.
3) Online users here think that this site , and all the "Social" content produced adds value to IPC and the magazines.
are all mutually exclusive items... I disagree entirely...
The model has changed.... its about relationships and harvesting knowledge about your users.... and thats where the future lays.... know enough, and your revenue opportunities become so significant that you CAN afford the high class journalism.... its a virtuous circle...
Judders
Well-Known Member
The article that pretended (badly) to be about the Devon Yawl in the current issue and the recent Bavaria versus Contessa article.
I would add the last two reveiws of new Benneteaux to a growing list of articles which had such sincerety that they could have been read aloud by Tony Blair.
Judders
Well-Known Member
When I was on the staff of magazines, I used to have frequent arguments with ad sales staff who would tell me that I shouldn't have said so and so because one of their customers wouldn't like it. You can't blame them for trying, but I don't think it ever made any difference. Maybe that's just because I'm a stroppy bugger.
Er, can't help noticing the past tense their Tim???
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Remind me, again, who wrote "If anything, the advertisers pay you to look at the adverts, by allowing the magazine to exist at a cover price that probably doesn't cover the cost of printing, binding and distributing." Just because advertisers pay doesn't make the magazine free, you know.
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
I like your way with words - I'm going to steal this and use it.
Should make me very popular around the office.
Ubergeekian
Well-Known Member
Koeketiene
Well-Known Member
Judders
Well-Known Member
It ought to be too obvious to need saying but I fear that for some it perhaps is not. YM need us to read the mag for the advertisers to bother to pay them handsomely to pop them in there, and indeed we therefore need to buy some of the products. We, the readers, are just as important in this eco-system of interdependancy. Ultimately, if I buy a Benneteau, spec it with Raymarine and Crusader sails then all well and good, but after six years of subscription, I'd still rather have a vintage Centurion 32 full of B&G (also vintage) and if I had the money I'd chuck some money at a sail loft I could walk into.
T
timbartlett
Guest
I haven't been on the staff of a magazine since 1997.
I am now self employed, and write for several magazines (only regularly for one in the UK) and various other customers.
T
timbartlett
Guest
I don't remember anyone suggesting that the magazine was free. What I was suggesting was that because the advertisers hope you (the readership in general) will read their adverts, they pay money which reduces the cover price to its present level. IN other words, they subsidise (quite heavily) your reading. Of course they don't do it out of the goodness of their hearts.
But the big advertisers very rarely (if ever) try to influence editorial -- the ones that try that are the ones that think buying a one-off eighth page black and white ad somewhere in the classifieds, and thinks that entitles him to four pages of gushing advertorial. They do not usually get it -- and if they do, it's not because they bought an ad.