Poey50
Well-Known Member
I think there is an argument that JumbleDucks assumption is safer. People unconsciously seem to take more risks depending on how risky they assess a situation to be.
Singlehanded overboard - getting back onboard options
- Thread starter Tim O
- Start date
I think there is an argument that JumbleDucks assumption is safer. People unconsciously seem to take more risks depending on how risky they assess a situation to be.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
You have a second career as fish food.
pvb
Well-Known Member
I'd agree with that.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
If you assume going overboard = death then we do everything we can not to let it happen to us.
I usually tell any novice crew that if you go overboard you are lucky to survive - while that may be an exaggeration it is better than the idea that it is simple just to hop back on board.
Caer Urfa
Well-Known Member
We all hear from others what you should or should not do when you go overboard, usually from people who have never sailed single handed and many say Oh its ok I have a boarding ladder fitted !
What many do not realize if you fall overboard and the boats is doing 2 knots in 30 seconds you will be 100' from the boat which is probably merrily sailing away !
As already said the best thing is to take as many precautions as possible but nothings 100%
Having sailed 'single handed' for over 20 years I always clip my handheld radio and my McMurdo FastFind 220 PLB on my life jacket which might give me 'some but
slim' chance to be a rescued job, instead of recovery job
What many do not realize if you fall overboard and the boats is doing 2 knots in 30 seconds you will be 100' from the boat which is probably merrily sailing away !
As already said the best thing is to take as many precautions as possible but nothings 100%
Having sailed 'single handed' for over 20 years I always clip my handheld radio and my McMurdo FastFind 220 PLB on my life jacket which might give me 'some but
slim' chance to be a rescued job, instead of recovery job
Corribee72
Well-Known Member
Realistically, if you go over in cold water without an immersion suit, wetsuit or drysuit you will loose the ability to use your hands and self rescue after even a few minutes will be nearly impossible. That combined with the probable panic makes self rescue more and more difficult, the way I see it, if your not out of cold water straight away, your going to need assistance. There have been numerous deaths were people have fallen overboard and the boat keeps moving, I agree with the caught off guard thing, good weather, no life jacket or buoyancy aid, over confident and in you go. If the waters cold like it would be on a sunny spring day, good luck with that, if you survive you've been really lucky.
FulmarJeddo
Well-Known Member
As others have said, assuming you won't get back aboard is a pretty good incentive to make sure you don't go over. Ever since I witnessed someone being dragged alongside his boat with his wife trying to help I have always been more concious of the danger. I noticed, from the beach something was wrong with a Moody drifting in a F6-7. With binoculars and telescope I realised it was a MOB tethered by his lifeline. I made a 999 call that triggered a Lifeboat launch. To cut a long story short Whitstable Lifeboat got there in time to cut him free and get him ashore to a waiting ambulance and off to hospital. He survived. The write up in the Lifeboat magazine quote from the crew was something like "I have never seen anyone before that colour that has survived"
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
The digital technology age should be able to get you a turn around solution under power.
Having said that, mount a large pole vertically on the stern and attached to the top is a swivel and block, alternatively the back stay. Feed through the block a long line and make a loop. The loop is the length of the boat plus a bit more. The ends of the line are attached to your safety harness and tied off bunched up and in your pocket. You walk about the boat and fall over and can't get back up. In your other pocket is a large drogue made of lightweight but strong rip stop nylon. Attach the drogue one end of the long line, untie it, cut your life line and deploy the drogue. Voila! your back on the boat hanging from the pole, shimmy round, cut line, make a cup of tea, ponder, change underwear, not necessarily in that order. Depending on the speed you could gracefully ascend back on board or brace for impact. For low wind speeds, low boat speeds, it will held you get back to the stern, to use the cunningly mounted multi fall block to help get you back on board.
Daft sounding ............
Having said that, mount a large pole vertically on the stern and attached to the top is a swivel and block, alternatively the back stay. Feed through the block a long line and make a loop. The loop is the length of the boat plus a bit more. The ends of the line are attached to your safety harness and tied off bunched up and in your pocket. You walk about the boat and fall over and can't get back up. In your other pocket is a large drogue made of lightweight but strong rip stop nylon. Attach the drogue one end of the long line, untie it, cut your life line and deploy the drogue. Voila! your back on the boat hanging from the pole, shimmy round, cut line, make a cup of tea, ponder, change underwear, not necessarily in that order. Depending on the speed you could gracefully ascend back on board or brace for impact. For low wind speeds, low boat speeds, it will held you get back to the stern, to use the cunningly mounted multi fall block to help get you back on board.
Daft sounding ............
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
Errr!!!!!! Yes :ambivalence:
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
My crew safety briefing, as I have written before, includes "This is a safety harness. Used properly, it will stop you going over the side. It contains a lifejacket, which should make recovering your body easier if you do go over the side."
GHA
Well-Known Member
2 thoughts - any time/money spent on "emergency kit" should only take place after you've done everything realistically possible to ensure it won't be needed .
I use a grigri (now grillion) so effectively triple reeved , add some adrenaline you can pull yourselve up vertically.
I use a grigri (now grillion) so effectively triple reeved , add some adrenaline you can pull yourselve up vertically.
Foolish Muse
Well-Known Member
Here is something worth reading. The big lesson, NEVER GIVE UP!
Before going forward, I ease slightly the main to slow the boat a little, I clip into the rooftop safety line, and unclip from the cockpit floor. I crawl on to the foredeck and loose the reef in the solent, and start my return across the boat. At this moment, my back is to the wind and I have a hand on the lifeline, I feel the boat suddenly take off a wave top and I feel myself go up and over my hand holding the lifeline, I fall past it and that force of the boat movement and my weight make me let go. I land pretty much head first into the water, and feel my harness go taunt while my life vest inflates. A fraction of a second later I am on my back being towed by the boat still underway. Quickly I reach for the autopilot remote to put the boat head to wind. Shit, its stuck under the life vest. I struggle a long moment with the waves that smack my back, and regularly slam into the windward daggerboard with my shoulder. The leading edge is painful and I start to lose strength and hope. Everytime I get my hand under the jacket a wave rips it out… after about 5 minutes of effort, I manage to grab it, and finally I am saved. I push the button and don’t let go., the boat is supposed to go head to wind( atleast I think) . Instead it tacks violently. I fell myself trapped under the boat. The sails all backwind, and I am now behind the stays. The boat is heeled over because the keel is canted to leeward and the whole stack below is to leeward.
The boat drifting quickly which traps my legs under the boat, I feel the lifelines cut into my stomach, the harness is still holding me forward, the life jacket keeps my head above the water, well more or less out of the water!
Well the situation isn’t much better. Impossible to pull myself from under the boat. A hope comes to me, even though the boat is mainly moving laterally, it still has some forward movement. I feel the tension in the harness, so I decide to attach my 2nd leash to the lifeline against which I am, while releasing the other one, this should push me to the back of the boat and hopefully release me from under the side of the hull. This works more or less as I thought because after considerable effort I manage to reach the stern. Then fatigue hits me and I stop moving. I lose hope for an instant, but realize that within arms reach of my left hand is backstay cleat. I pop it, it hoping that it will ease the main and flatten the boat somewhat. In the following second, I feel the boat right itself, I even stay hooked on the lifeline and am almost lifted out of the water. But I immediately crash back in.
I realize that when I blew the backstay, the mast fell. Big moment of despair, I almost forget that I am in the water with 4-5 meter waves, exhausted, and starting to feel the cold.
I am now at the back of the boat, and try to get back in the cockpit using the sort of step built into the stern, but I cant get my foot on it, its moving too much and I am too tired. Finally I decide to try and enter the boat using escape hatch on the stern. I open it and pull out the liferaft with much difficulty. Once its out, I have to remove my life jacket to get through the hatch, because inflated it is too big. But impossible to unbuckle it under tension. In hindsight I did have a knife within arms reach that I could have used to cut it off, but I didn’t think of it at the time… cold and exhausted, I start to capitulate and resign myself to the hope that someone passes close to me soon.
A few minutes go by and I realize that the boat is listing and low in the water, the escape hatch isn’t closed. At the same moment I see that the starboard side is under water, so I slide over it and into the cockpit. I turn on my emergency beacons, and tell myself that it would be good to free the rig to protect the rest of the boat. Barely through the first stay, I am almost tossed overboard again. So I wisely crawly back into the cockpit and don’t move. At the same moment I see the top of a mini sail about 50 m away heading straight at me. He furls his gennaker and I see it s Tanguy le Turquais who was in the lead pack of the series boats,, he slows down and passes close to me. I learned later that when he saw the look in my eyes he quickly called in a rescue by VHF and stayed at my side so they could find me in the waves.
Ten minutes later they arrive, and despite the conditions put out a tender to come get me. It is night and I am happy to see them and feel the heat upon boarding the PSP Cormoran !
Before going forward, I ease slightly the main to slow the boat a little, I clip into the rooftop safety line, and unclip from the cockpit floor. I crawl on to the foredeck and loose the reef in the solent, and start my return across the boat. At this moment, my back is to the wind and I have a hand on the lifeline, I feel the boat suddenly take off a wave top and I feel myself go up and over my hand holding the lifeline, I fall past it and that force of the boat movement and my weight make me let go. I land pretty much head first into the water, and feel my harness go taunt while my life vest inflates. A fraction of a second later I am on my back being towed by the boat still underway. Quickly I reach for the autopilot remote to put the boat head to wind. Shit, its stuck under the life vest. I struggle a long moment with the waves that smack my back, and regularly slam into the windward daggerboard with my shoulder. The leading edge is painful and I start to lose strength and hope. Everytime I get my hand under the jacket a wave rips it out… after about 5 minutes of effort, I manage to grab it, and finally I am saved. I push the button and don’t let go., the boat is supposed to go head to wind( atleast I think) . Instead it tacks violently. I fell myself trapped under the boat. The sails all backwind, and I am now behind the stays. The boat is heeled over because the keel is canted to leeward and the whole stack below is to leeward.
The boat drifting quickly which traps my legs under the boat, I feel the lifelines cut into my stomach, the harness is still holding me forward, the life jacket keeps my head above the water, well more or less out of the water!
Well the situation isn’t much better. Impossible to pull myself from under the boat. A hope comes to me, even though the boat is mainly moving laterally, it still has some forward movement. I feel the tension in the harness, so I decide to attach my 2nd leash to the lifeline against which I am, while releasing the other one, this should push me to the back of the boat and hopefully release me from under the side of the hull. This works more or less as I thought because after considerable effort I manage to reach the stern. Then fatigue hits me and I stop moving. I lose hope for an instant, but realize that within arms reach of my left hand is backstay cleat. I pop it, it hoping that it will ease the main and flatten the boat somewhat. In the following second, I feel the boat right itself, I even stay hooked on the lifeline and am almost lifted out of the water. But I immediately crash back in.
I realize that when I blew the backstay, the mast fell. Big moment of despair, I almost forget that I am in the water with 4-5 meter waves, exhausted, and starting to feel the cold.
I am now at the back of the boat, and try to get back in the cockpit using the sort of step built into the stern, but I cant get my foot on it, its moving too much and I am too tired. Finally I decide to try and enter the boat using escape hatch on the stern. I open it and pull out the liferaft with much difficulty. Once its out, I have to remove my life jacket to get through the hatch, because inflated it is too big. But impossible to unbuckle it under tension. In hindsight I did have a knife within arms reach that I could have used to cut it off, but I didn’t think of it at the time… cold and exhausted, I start to capitulate and resign myself to the hope that someone passes close to me soon.
A few minutes go by and I realize that the boat is listing and low in the water, the escape hatch isn’t closed. At the same moment I see that the starboard side is under water, so I slide over it and into the cockpit. I turn on my emergency beacons, and tell myself that it would be good to free the rig to protect the rest of the boat. Barely through the first stay, I am almost tossed overboard again. So I wisely crawly back into the cockpit and don’t move. At the same moment I see the top of a mini sail about 50 m away heading straight at me. He furls his gennaker and I see it s Tanguy le Turquais who was in the lead pack of the series boats,, he slows down and passes close to me. I learned later that when he saw the look in my eyes he quickly called in a rescue by VHF and stayed at my side so they could find me in the waves.
Ten minutes later they arrive, and despite the conditions put out a tender to come get me. It is night and I am happy to see them and feel the heat upon boarding the PSP Cormoran !
Foolish Muse
Well-Known Member
Here is a story from my singlehanded book:
Craig Horsfield fell off of his Mini Zero during the 2009 Pornichet Select, a 280 mile race off the French Coast. This is a three day race near shore and crossing the fishing grounds, meaning that sleep is virtually impossible. Undoubtedly this added to the problem. “It was not a good experience. The whole thing happened so ridiculously slowly in my mind. It seemed to take forever. You’re getting towed along on the leeward side. You try to get back on your boat and you just can’t.”
It started on the afternoon of the third day, in a beautiful 10 knot breeze. Craig walked up to the bow to clear a line before setting the spinnaker. The boat rolled slightly and he fell overboard. “The jib was down because I was setting up for the spinnaker. I thought it was there and you instinctively lean on the sail. I just fell overboard.”
Being dragged along, halfway down the starboard side with his tether caught on the shroud base, Craig’s first act was to tuck his knee up to his chest and pull his boots off. They were completely full of water. Craig actually bought boots too large with just such an incident in mind. After this, his life jacket had inflated and was limiting arm reach. He used his knife to puncture and deflate it.
Craig realized that if he unclipped his tether and was not able to hold on to a stanchion, he was lost. He was wearing an integrated Spinlock life Vest with harness and crotch straps. He could feel the vest pulling up and is quite sure that the crotch straps kept it on.
Eventually, the boat rolled slightly and he was able to get a leg on board. With tremendous effort he pushed himself up over the lifelines. He estimates the event took ten minutes in total. That’s ten minutes of dragging beside the boat. He always keeps a sealed bag and quickly changed into warm clothing.
Craig Horsfield fell off of his Mini Zero during the 2009 Pornichet Select, a 280 mile race off the French Coast. This is a three day race near shore and crossing the fishing grounds, meaning that sleep is virtually impossible. Undoubtedly this added to the problem. “It was not a good experience. The whole thing happened so ridiculously slowly in my mind. It seemed to take forever. You’re getting towed along on the leeward side. You try to get back on your boat and you just can’t.”
It started on the afternoon of the third day, in a beautiful 10 knot breeze. Craig walked up to the bow to clear a line before setting the spinnaker. The boat rolled slightly and he fell overboard. “The jib was down because I was setting up for the spinnaker. I thought it was there and you instinctively lean on the sail. I just fell overboard.”
Being dragged along, halfway down the starboard side with his tether caught on the shroud base, Craig’s first act was to tuck his knee up to his chest and pull his boots off. They were completely full of water. Craig actually bought boots too large with just such an incident in mind. After this, his life jacket had inflated and was limiting arm reach. He used his knife to puncture and deflate it.
Craig realized that if he unclipped his tether and was not able to hold on to a stanchion, he was lost. He was wearing an integrated Spinlock life Vest with harness and crotch straps. He could feel the vest pulling up and is quite sure that the crotch straps kept it on.
Eventually, the boat rolled slightly and he was able to get a leg on board. With tremendous effort he pushed himself up over the lifelines. He estimates the event took ten minutes in total. That’s ten minutes of dragging beside the boat. He always keeps a sealed bag and quickly changed into warm clothing.
D
Deleted member 36384
Guest
Thanks for sharing these two stories Foolish Muse; a bit of a reality check.
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
I do not see how a tether stops one going over the side on the majority of smaller yachts.
i think the average length is about 5 feet so on a 10 ft beam yacht , even if the jackstay had no flex in it the casualty would still be over the side.
People talk about having jackstays inboard but i have only seen one boat rigged thus.
Many yachts have spray hoods so the "central jackstay could not start until forward of the hatch & it would need the crew to get past the hood to connect to it. Hence, during that operation the crew would have to be hooked on at the wide point of the boat to get round the hood & would be able to fall in whilst hooked on.
Without a spray hood the jackstay could run down the side of the hatchway to the cabin but now would be nearer the edge. that means the boat would have to have a beam of 12ft 6 ins minimum to stop the tether reaching the guardrail( without any stretch allowance.
Once the crew gets to the mast he would have to either go inside the shrouds etc meaning re clipping & the boat gets narrower so the tether does not stop him reaching the guardrail in a fall
All the tether does is ( hopefully) keep one attached to the boat-- unless something breaks that is
Daydream believer
Well-Known Member
99.9% of the time you are dead right but in any survival situation you have 2 options:-
Lay there & say "I am dead"
or start thinking " S..t this is not going to happen this way, what can i do now?)
It has been proven that those with the willpower to think along the lines of the second option are the ones who "sometimes" make it. -
But i agree with everyone- the best option is not to fall over in the first place. That is why i promote things like single line reefing in the cockpit etc so I do not have to go on deck too often
I sail SH most of the time & feel that the 2 most dangerous events are :- leaving port & hoisting sails & getting fenders & lines in
Arriving at port , Dropping sails & getting fenders & lines ready.
Add missing b''dy pots whilst doing it, to that, esp at places like Dieppe etc
The first because I am not used to conditions & the second because I will be tired.
So I really make sure that i am hooked on & the boat is traveling slow whilst i am doing it
Graham_Wright
Well-Known Member
It's been done. German device I think exhibited at SBS last year. The video showed it working - in benign conditions. Not for me.
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Depends how you rig the jackstays, nothing stopping you clipping in to the jackstay on the opposite side of the boat or shortening the tether. Much as I hate triple headed tethers they give you a lot more flexibility.
bedouin
Well-Known Member
That is an interesting choice - but must have severely reduced his options!
I know there is an argument for using manual rather than automatic lifejackets just because there are times when the LJ inflating automatically is a distinct disadvantage.
Lightwave395
Well-Known Member
+1 to having a survival attitude.
Back in 2005 I did my first cross channel solo race (in a Dehler 35CWS) to Cherbourg, details are a bit vague after 13 years but I recall it was a beautiful light wind sunny day and a fleet of around 20 or more boats.
The VHF burst into life some 20 NM or so from Cherbourg with a mayday call – one competitor was sailing close to another and couldn’t get a response to a radio call or hail, he closed on the boat, which was gliding nicely along on autopilot and found there was nobody onboard.
Most of the fleet in the near vicinity began searching and after a couple of hours the skipper was found by the French SAR helicopter that had joined the search, swimming around with no lifejacket and suffering from the onset of hyperthermia. He was taken to hospital in Cherbourg where he recovered unscathed. The guy was an experienced solo skipper who had, I believe, competed in the Mini Transat, he had apparently gone out over the stern guard wires to check the rudder for weed and fallen in watching his boat sail serenely on without him.
Who, in such a situation, would give up and prepare to meet Davy Jones I wonder ?
Back in 2005 I did my first cross channel solo race (in a Dehler 35CWS) to Cherbourg, details are a bit vague after 13 years but I recall it was a beautiful light wind sunny day and a fleet of around 20 or more boats.
The VHF burst into life some 20 NM or so from Cherbourg with a mayday call – one competitor was sailing close to another and couldn’t get a response to a radio call or hail, he closed on the boat, which was gliding nicely along on autopilot and found there was nobody onboard.
Most of the fleet in the near vicinity began searching and after a couple of hours the skipper was found by the French SAR helicopter that had joined the search, swimming around with no lifejacket and suffering from the onset of hyperthermia. He was taken to hospital in Cherbourg where he recovered unscathed. The guy was an experienced solo skipper who had, I believe, competed in the Mini Transat, he had apparently gone out over the stern guard wires to check the rudder for weed and fallen in watching his boat sail serenely on without him.
Who, in such a situation, would give up and prepare to meet Davy Jones I wonder ?
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