Single or Double ????

[Signed Out]

Thankyou Tranona. If anyone does still know of an adventure in a multihull, I'd be interested to hear of it. Maybe for another thread sometime...

Along the same lines though, reading through lists of boat the liveaboards have, and reading about numerous long term cruisers, many go for steel for it's safety in impacts. This is not a material for multis. Likewise, surely anyone cruising long term is going to pick up a level of clutter, and detritus, which will of course add a significant weight.

I was taught that multihulls cannot be loaded much before losing their performance edge, and surely in a cruising situation, it won't take much to get it like this.

Are multi cruisers far more vigilant for this? Or do they suffer for it?

 

[jamesjermain]

Your ole mate Geoff bought one didnt he

Bought one what? A cat? Yes, so did I. Your point is?

 

[jamesjermain]

If cats really were any good, there would be more of them.

End of.

A very well reasoned argument, Guapa; I'll sell Belladonna immediately

 

[snowleopard]

Thankyou Tranona. If anyone does still know of an adventure in a multihull, I'd be interested to hear of it. Maybe for another thread sometime...

Here's one to start you off - David Lewis in Rehu Moana. Circumnavigated via the straits of Magellan as described in his books Daughters of the Wind and Children of Three Oceans.

Any number of accounts of circumnavigations in the Southern Ocean, Nigel Tetley and Alain Colas being early examples. Then of course there's Day Mellon, RKJ and many more of late.

I believe one of our number is plotting to take his cat down towards Cape Horn.

 

[Signed Out]

Thanks Snowleopard.

I had begun wondering about David Lewis. As for RKJ, Colas and Tetley, to me they are racers, which don't count in my eyes (heart & mind); pioneering perhaps, but not adventurous. I don't know of Day Mellon, I'll have to have a Google of them.

Interested to hear of the exploits of any forumites on such a trip.

Please understand that I am not criticising cats, as I have enjoyed sailing on them. I prefer monos, but certainly would not rule one out if I could afford one next time. Although in my budget it would have less accommodation than a mono for the length. Would never have a dinghy cat again (Dart 16 sold this year), but that's me. Did a fantastic passage on a 50' racing cat, and would jump at the chance to do again.

 

[snowleopard]

I don't know of Day Mellonn.

= Dame Ellen (forumspeak).

 

[Signed Out]

Not noticed that nickname before, and certainly been pootling about here for some time (bar my absence). No wonder google didn't help.

Just remembered James Wharram of course.

 

[jamesjermain]

Possibly relevant in the blue-water side of the topic, as it is surely part of this "sphere", is the aspect of going off the beaten track and to those latitudes that require a woolly jumper.

Having read a lot of saily adventures, magazines and so on, I cannot recall a single cat or tri being involved in this type of sailing. Can anyone point me/us in the direction of a multihull going into such territories?

Is it that the more adventurous are more conservative? Or is that self contradictory (no, I won't say oxymoron, as it's not a phrase, blah blah). Or are catamarans and tris not as suitable for those trips?


The most "adventurous" multi sailor I can think of is Rory McDougall (?), with "Cooking Fat", but that could be argued to only be down to the size of craft.

James Wharram.

Admittedly most of his adventuring has been in the south pacific, but some of it has been very intrepid - specially as many/most of his boats are tied together with string. This afternoon he is going to launch his latest project. I hope to be there. The man's a true British eccentric and, having reached a very advanced age (over 80), is definiteley a national treasure.

 

[Boathook]

I was taught that multihulls cannot be loaded much before losing their performance edge, and surely in a cruising situation, it won't take much to get it like this.

Are multi cruisers far more vigilant for this? Or do they suffer for it?

My cat is possibly overweight as all the lockers are full (on this winters to do list to empty). Sail trim though, makes a much bigger difference. As the design is nearly 40 years old I do try to compare other boats of the same design age and feel that my cruising cat is faster with a lot more space. I started on mono's and prefer cats now. The tacking is nice; put the drink down, tack, pick up drink from same location as put down. Spillage is unusual .....

 

[JomsViking]

Statistics

......

A modern cruising cat is almost impossible to capsize and statistically there is more chance of a monohull sinking than a cat turning over.
......

While I love multi's too (not least Dragonfly's) I struggle to find numbers to prove that, and honestly don't believe that to be true. While the (small) risk of capsizing wouldn't keep me from buying a multi, I think we need to stick to what we can factually prove..

Btw. I'd be happy to be proven wrong....

 

[KellysEye]

>If cats really were any good, there would be more of them.

Years ago in the Caribbean 90% of charter boats were monos, 10% cats. Now it's about 70% cats and 30% monos. Reason - most ladies don't like to heel, hence out there it's called girlie sailing.

 

[Garold]

.....So if space, accommodation, ease of handling and lack of heeling are important to you, then you will have to accept the downsides of lack of excitement, higher berthing costs and arguably poorer aesthetics.

+1

I've owned and sailed a catamaran for about 3-4 years now (two different boats - both new and mid-market crusing spec).

I use my boat, on average, about 80 days a year (only in the Channel so far)and this has certainly given me time to consider the merits of two hulls.

I believe that you can't have your cake and eat it.

Multihull life when not sailing is very comfortable. And when sailing, it's largely flat, which is also pleasant. However, the motion of a sailing multi has to be experienced because it really doesn't suit some people. And unless one is on a racing cat, the sailing experience on a cruising catamaran is somewhat 'detached'.

As for speed, we've rarely passed any monohull of a similar size, but we may just be underskilled. We have to motor(sail) more often than our monohull sailing buddies. But I am fine with this compromise.

I wouldn't be keen to swop the living comfort of a modern cruising multihull for that of a monohull. Since we spend a lot of time not sailing this may be a decision that is only pertinent to us.

If you want to spend every evening in a marina then a catamaran may not be ideal because the cost is higher and sometimes they do struggle to fit you in. However, when touring we probably spend more time at anchor or on a buoy so it's fine for us. We are self sufficent and so we don't really need the marina facilities. Also, on a catamaran one doesn't feel quite so confined so the need to get off and get ashore is not very strong.

So, your choice really. We had a couple of monohulls earlier in our lives and so we have been able to make the comparison for us.

Cheers

Garold

 

[Scotty_Tradewind]

I wish I had more experience sailing cats to offer a more informed opinion.

I had a disastrously boring holiday mostly motoring a large cat in Greek waters a long time ago.
Due to the calm conditions it really became no more than a motorboat transporting us from A to B, so not a fair representation of what can be experienced.

When I see the sporty hobie cats whizzing past me in a stiff breeze, I really want to be out there having a go.
This last RTIR I went out to Bembridge buoy to see the leading craft come through and to experience that leading multihull come passed us within a length away made me realise what a thrill they can be. The whole thing seemed to hum/vibrate/zizz as it passed us... a sound and sensation I guess some experienced multihull racing sailors will recognise??

 

[Koeketiene]

If cats really were any good, there would be more of them.

End of.

A very well reasoned argument, Guapa; I'll sell Belladonna immediately

You're welcome - happy to help.

 

[chrisedwards]

Thankyou Tranona. If anyone does still know of an adventure in a multihull, I'd be interested to hear of it. Maybe for another thread sometime...

Along the same lines though, reading through lists of boat the liveaboards have, and reading about numerous long term cruisers, many go for steel for it's safety in impacts. This is not a material for multis. Likewise, surely anyone cruising long term is going to pick up a level of clutter, and detritus, which will of course add a significant weight.

I was taught that multihulls cannot be loaded much before losing their performance edge, and surely in a cruising situation, it won't take much to get it like this.

Are multi cruisers far more vigilant for this? Or do they suffer for it?

Pete Hill (was married to Annie Hill - famous for writing Voyaging on a Small Income)) pottered around Patagonia, Horn, Magellan Straits recently in China Moon - a junk-riggerd Cat.

He's building another now

He is argueably the best British sailor alive today - check his record.

 

[mikemacdonald]

Having a deep and meaningful chat with a friend last night. he is totally opposed to sailing cats (non-furry variety)


Very wise choice, they don't go to windward and turnover at the drop of a hat and don't fit into marinas. We don't need anymore cluttering up the coast!

Peter

ha, agree!! Mike

 

[mikemacdonald]

Here's one to start you off - David Lewis in Rehu Moana. Circumnavigated via the straits of Magellan as described in his books Daughters of the Wind and Children of Three Oceans.

Any number of accounts of circumnavigations in the Southern Ocean, Nigel Tetley and Alain Colas being early examples. Then of course there's Day Mellon, RKJ and many more of late.

I believe one of our number is plotting to take his cat down towards Cape Horn.

Done by Rosie Swale + 2 kids and Husband ( Children of Cape Horn ). Pat Patterson ( In the wake of Drake ),Alain Jacot-Descombes, 1st circumnavigation in 26' Heavenly Twins, Mike Macdonald, discovered the upper reaches of Christchurch Hbr 1980, etc....

 

[Signed Out]

Thanks Chris and Mike. Funnily enough I was looking at Annie Hill's blog yesterday, maybe should hunt down her ex's today...
---

It has probably been said numerous times, but I don't believe that cats and monos can be compared by length (I am sure it has been done here, but read it all yesterday...). Performance and accommodation of course, but then price also; these all are totally disparate between the types.

---

And in here this morning the old Windows vs Mac thing came up, and of course the Maccites jumped up to defend the honour of those slices of burnished aluminium. It immediately clanged a big bell in my head- aha! Catamarans = Macs. Monos = Windows. Cats and Macs are a "lifestyle choice" I have decided. Very good at what they do, whilst with an element of glamour and cachet (= pricey). Perhaps an iphone is like a dart/hobie?

 

[Third mate]

Many thanks for the helpful comments so far.

Interesting to hear about thoughts on racing multi's but as was picked up, the main thrust was for a blue water cruiser.

Have decided to explore this a bit further and have a closer look at a cat. Not far from Broadblue when in the UK and like the look of their range.

Anyone have a view on this brand ?

 

[Bajansailor]

I would agree with the poster above who mentioned cats designed by Darren Newton (Dazcats) and Richard Woods - they can certainly show a clean pair of wakes to many monohulls of similar length.
I met Richard here in Barbados about 7 or 8 years ago after he sailed his Eclipse across the Atlantic - http://www.sailingcatamarans.com/eclipse.htm
They had a pretty fast passage, despite being loaded down with enough provisions for 4 crew, and lots of cruising kit. I went for a sail one day on Eclipse when she was here, and I was just amazed - she was sailing beautifully, at an impressive speed, on most headings (even beating to windward).

Richard subsequently had an adventure with Eclipse when he abandoned her in a storm in the Pacific - and she was later 'found' still floating, and salvaged.
More about this adventure here - http://www.multihullpages.com/eclipse.html

The Broadblue cats appear to be pretty fast, with nice accommodation - one of their smaller 345's http://www.broadblue.co.uk/catamarans/broadblue-voyager345 beat the pants off us (in a Sun Fast 37) most comprehensively last summer on a passage from Portsmouth round to Southampton (although most folk would agree that she is not the prettiest cat around).
(I think the original Broadblue cats started off by resurrecting some of the old Prout Snowgoose cat moulds and then moving on from there ?)