Simrad TP32 end of ram pops off if end of range reached

[Vega1447]

Hi as above. I sail an Albin Vega 27 (less than 3 tonnes) for which the TP32 tiller pilot is more than adequate.

Unfortunately when in gusty weather the tp makes a course adjustment requiring the full range/'throw' of the ram it sometimes drives the ram slightly too far and the plastic screw on cap at the end of the ram pops off the pin on the tiller.

This didn't happen with my old TP10 which would stop and emit a warning tone if it reached the limit of its throw.

I didn't change the geometry of the setup when I bought the new TP. The cup on the sidedeck that receives the pivot at the outboard end of the TP hasn't moved, nor has the location of the pin on the tiller.

The dimensions of the TP10 and the TP32 are the same.

I confess that I haven't checked the manual for the TP32 - I just 'assumed' that I didn't need to change the geometry.

Should the TP32 not cut out when the maximum throw is exceeded? And emit a warning tone?

Or is this the price that I pay for having an overpowered TP?

Many thanks for any suggestions.

 

[Poignard]

I had a quick look in the manual and couldn't see any adjustment procedure for changing the length of travel for the ram.

Have you tried adjusting Response Control? Maybe the large movements of the tiller should not be necessary. They are certainly undesirable.

 

[rogerthebodger]

Culd the end of travel limit switch be faulty so not indication end of travel

 

[Vega1447]

Move the mounting block forward and also the tiller pin.

Is that based on the installation directions or just on general principles?

If the latter should I revert to the installation directions for the original TP10?

I did install the TP 10 further aft than recommended as the angle through which the tiller would have rotated would have rotated would have been very limited if I had used the recommended position.

Also the cup for the TP would have had to be located in the cover for the cockpit locker....

I wonder why I got away with locating the tp10 too far aft?

Thanks!

 

[Vega1447]

Culd the end of travel limit switch be faulty so not indication end of travel

That's a worrying suggestion...

I don't know if Simrad have service centres anymore as tiller pilots don't seem to be a major part of their business...

 

[davidmh]

what exactly is pushing the pin off, Is the pin still upright at the end of the stroke. is the rod fouling the tiller or the bracket in some way.

David MH

 

[penberth3]

Hi as above. I sail an Albin Vega 27 (less than 3 tonnes) for which the TP32 tiller pilot is more than adequate.

Unfortunately when in gusty weather the tp makes a course adjustment requiring the full range/'throw' of the ram it sometimes drives the ram slightly too far and the plastic screw on cap at the end of the ram pops off the pin on the tiller.......

Is this a ball and socket joint something like this:

Two thoughts. Either the plastic cap has worn or stretched, or there is a part missing, Often there is a wire clip which helps to hold the two parts together.

 

[alahol2]

First, I'm fairly certain the TP10, 22,32 do not have an end of throw switch, I think they use the Hall effect sensor to identify when the ram stops moving. Something I didn't know/had forgotten is that, after power on, the first time you press the STBY Auto button the pilot registers the ram position and assumes it is at mid throw. Perhaps you had the ram offset when you started up?

 

[rogerthebodger]

You can use a hall effect sensor as an end of travel sensor

If it used a travel measurement from a center position how does the AP measure the movement

 

[alahol2]

The Hall effect transducer is fixed in the body of the pilot, the magnets are in a cog which rotates with the ram screw. Whether the pilot counts revolutions or only senses movement of the screw I don't know.

 

[zulloboy]

SImple: the TP32 has far greater thrust than the TP10, enough to pop the ram off. Simple fix is a few turns of shock cord to hold it down.
Cheers, Graeme

 

[VicS]

Is that based on the installation directions or just on general principles?

If the latter should I revert to the installation directions for the original TP10?

I did install the TP 10 further aft than recommended as the angle through which the tiller would have rotated would have rotated would have been very limited if I had used the recommended position.

Also the cup for the TP would have had to be located in the cover for the cockpit locker....

I wonder why I got away with locating the tp10 too far aft?

Thanks!

Is the tiller reaching the limit of its range of movement before the tiller pilot ram reaches the limit of its movement (due to having been installed too far aft) . If so maybe this is why the connection is being forced off the tiller pin. The tiller wont go any further but the tiller pilot is still trying to move to the limit of its travel. No problem with the less powerful TP10 but not so with the TP32.

I'd suggest that the TP32 should be installed according to the instructions.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

the Hall effect sensor measures and feedback rudder position if connected to a network. I see it on my B&G display. Its fixed on the ram, there is no reseting at power on. It also limits travel. If the TP is mounted too far aft the rudder will hit it's stop before the TP gets to end of travel and the torque may well be enough to pop it off the peg or damage the fitting. I had on old TP10 where the end fitting would pop off frequently as it was worn and had to tape it onto the tiller fitting to keep it connected in rough weather. I could still pull the other end out of its fitting to allow manual steering so the arrangement was safe until I could replace the fitting. I upgraded to a 22 and now a 32 with the 22 as backup. They are compatible with Navico course computers if anyone is thinking along those lines and also with the Navico wireless remote WR10? which I installed this year. The only downside is you can't do no feedback control with the remote but otherwise it's great.

 

[alahol2]

the Hall effect sensor measures and feedback rudder... Its fixed on the ram, there is no reseting at power on.

Thats not what it says in the manual. It specifically mentions ensuring that the ram is centred before pressing the auto button after power up.

 

[tross]

I'm comming in late on this but the problem of the arm comming away from the pin is cured by replacing the plastic socket at the end of the arm as I learnt from my experiance

 

[davidmh]

Why not check the ram position in maximum out position and min in position without the pin attached to the tiller. I should bleep when max or min position is reached. When is is bleeping try putting the tiller pin into the autopilot, it should slip in easily, Check also how much further the rudder will go before it hits the stops. If the tiller pin to rudder pintle distance (measured horizontally) is the not what the manufacturers state it will alter the pilot performance as the software will be designed to give a certain rudder angle movement to correct a course error. Sure it will work it will just take longer for the software to get the corrections right. Also if your rudder pintles are angled back the tiller will rise and fall depending on the angle, this does effect the security of the pin and cup.

David MH

 

[zulloboy]

the Hall effect sensor measures and feedback rudder position if connected to a network. I see it on my B&G display. Its fixed on the ram, there is no reseting at power on. It also limits travel. If the TP is mounted too far aft the rudder will hit it's stop before the TP gets to end of travel and the torque may well be enough to pop it off the peg or damage the fitting. I had on old TP10 where the end fitting would pop off frequently as it was worn and had to tape it onto the tiller fitting to keep it connected in rough weather. I could still pull the other end out of its fitting to allow manual steering so the arrangement was safe until I could replace the fitting. I upgraded to a 22 and now a 32 with the 22 as backup. They are compatible with Navico course computers if anyone is thinking along those lines and also with the Navico wireless remote WR10? which I installed this year. The only downside is you can't do no feedback control with the remote but otherwise it's great.

This is true of more recent models, but I'm pretty sure the earlier ones did not track rudder positions.

 

[alahol2]

From the current TP32 manual on the Simrad site...

Autopilot mode
Note: The rudder zero position is captured at first time initiation of
Autopilot mode. This information is however lost if the unit is turned
OFF. Before initiating the Autopilot mode after a power down, you
should ensure that the rudder is centered!

 

[Buck Turgidson]

From the current TP32 manual on the Simrad site...

Autopilot mode
Note: The rudder zero position is captured at first time initiation of
Autopilot mode. This information is however lost if the unit is turned
OFF. Before initiating the Autopilot mode after a power down, you
should ensure that the rudder is centered!

Interesting as I have never done that after the first setup so I will experiment next time I'm on the boat. As I have rudder position indication it should be easy to test.

 

[BabaYaga]

I am not familiar with this make of tillerpilot, but the same thing happens occasionally with my Raymarine EV-100 (and did with the previous ST4000). The basic explanation is I think the very raked rudder stock of the Vega, which my boat also shares.
The greater the throw of the tiller, the more the pin on the tiller will be out of the vertical, which in turn will make the cap on the ram more prone to pop off. The fact that you have installed it further aft than recommended will increase this effect, because the tiller angle will be greater and the pin even more out of vertical.
Also the greater punch of the more powerful ram will increase the risk.
A bungee cord to hold the ram down seems to be the easiest solution.