Signalk - would you use it?

[GHA]

Signalk is gaining ground but still very much seen as a bit geeky by the majority it seems. I've been approached to lend a hand putting together a 'howto' to load signalk onto windows and get it running.
So how easy would it need to be for most people to be interested?
At the moment there's some command line stuff to load node and tweak a few things, all cut and paste but maybe off putting for many 'hit the on button on the laptop but not much more' sailors.

Briefly, signalk has been likened to a swiss army knife for any kind of boat data, so if you have say nmea0183 depth, gps , wind etc you can point the usb/serial adaptor to signalk then SK will do the rest, create handy dashboards, save the data, send it to the could, send it to opencpn, do what you want with it in a webpage on any device. Really handy once you get into it.

So how easy to install should it be? , would many be interested?

http://signalk.org/
http://signalk.org/demo.html

 

[RichardS]

I thought that this was going to be about stripey toothpaste.

Richard

 

[Stemar]

I don't use NMEA in any flavour, so don't see the need.

 

[vas]

not interested BUT, explain how someone would be going about using it.

You have a yacht a few analogue instruments I guess NMEA0183 in and outs all working fine.
So, you'd need to rip them out of their housings, find the right cables, add extra cables and route them to the chart table or wherever is handy to install this h/w. Then you have to wire them all up, do the code copy pasting, test it that it works (I'll be damned if it works first time!) and eventually you have data flowing to your SignalK.

is that the expected process or am I missing something? Mind haven't spent more than 3-4mins looking at it a few years ago...
if so, I guess not many are going to be interested
you have to have a good idea of what you're going to gain by going this route, so write a bigger post trying to indulge ppl

cheers

V.

PS. otoh, having all my N2K data shown on one of the unused ipads my wife is collecting from her work, wouldn't be a bad idea, especially if I don't have to design the interface with all the gauges and stuff and I can just collect/select ready made widgets. That I'd be interested in (but I guess it's another thing altogether)!

 

[GHA]

not interested BUT, explain how someone would be going about using it.

You have a yacht a few analogue instruments I guess NMEA0183 in and outs all working fine.
So, you'd need to rip them out of their housings, find the right cables, add extra cables and route them to the chart table or wherever is handy to install this h/w. Then you have to wire them all up, do the code copy pasting, test it that it works (I'll be damned if it works first time!) and eventually you have data flowing to your SignalK.

is that the expected process or am I missing something? Mind haven't spent more than 3-4mins looking at it a few years ago...
if so, I guess not many are going to be interested
you have to have a good idea of what you're going to gain by going this route, so write a bigger post trying to indulge ppl

cheers

V.

PS. otoh, having all my N2K data shown on one of the unused ipads my wife is collecting from her work, wouldn't be a bad idea, especially if I don't have to design the interface with all the gauges and stuff and I can just collect/select ready made widgets. That I'd be interested in (but I guess it's another thing altogether)!

If you're a bit geeky & like arduinos then getting analogue instruments might be of interest, signalk running on a server does make it easy to send the data over udp/tcp, but doubt if many would be up for that. If you've a laptop with nmea data going into it already then it can be very useful , N2K data as well if you have a can/usb adaptor. Lots on signalk and a (very basic, loads more in it) demo in the links in the first post.

 

[[163233]]

It needs a cheaper gateway. A pi should be able to do the same job as the 300usd ikommunicate gateway.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Some information about what it's useful for and what software it lives in might be useful! Saying "SignalK" on its own doesn't mean much to most of us. I might be interested if I knew what it does and what its software environment is - but at the moment I don't even know IF I can use it and WHAT it does! The name is probably descriptive if you know what it does, but it isn't if you don't.

 

[vas]

It needs a cheaper gateway. A pi should be able to do the same job as the 300usd ikommunicate gateway.

cant you use a pi or whatever? I guess the s/w if free (if you can configure it)

btw GHA, can I use one of my leftover ESP32S as a N2K -> SignalK wifi gateway? it's got wifi and it's got a canbus chip connected and working. Any s/w pointers?

too busy till Monday by the looks of it so wont have time to search the web. On my 5min search I found a few apps for android and ios (no free ones for ios obviously!) but not sure what out of the existing data flowing is xlated and supported by this thing. Will come back after I do my homework

V

 

[yotter]

I currently use Navmonpc to display time histories of NMEA data, typically true wind speed and direction. It is amazing how much more insight you gleen from seeing the variations rather than just looking at a gauge. It is a little clunky and I would be keen to view and log more parameters and other inputs. I already have a laptop with NMEA to USB converters. Can I install and run without the requirement to purchase extra equipment? I would be happy to invest in more equipment is sold on the idea.
Angus

 

[northwind]

As it stands it is very much geeky. The "whats in it for me" factor is very low for most people.

SignalK is a messaging hub, with some web interfaces. To make any use of it, you need to know why you would want to, which is not very clear from the website.

A typical use case might be - I want to see my instrument data on my iPhone, however you then need hardware, either going down the Pi route, or using the iKommuncate device which is at least more plug and play.

Once you are in the world of creating your own sensors or working out how to receive data from an analogue thing, you have unfortunately gone over the head of all but the geeks.

Full disclosure, I am in the geek camp, but I have been struggling to see the need for it, beyond a means of pushing data to websockets.

 

[dolabriform]

I prefer to use and esp32 and generate NMEA2000 to send all the data to my B&G Vulcan. This, along with the ST70's, will display time plots, gauges and anything almost anything else I could wish for!

 

[prv]

I understand "signal K" to refer to a protocol, so asking if I want to install it somewhere doesn't really make sense. Like asking if I want to "install NMEA0183". I might want to install something that receives or transmits NMEA0183, but then it's the software itself I'm interested in, not the protocols it speaks.

It sounds like you're referring to some software that allows you to assemble easily-configurable dashboards, translate instrument data formats, and multiplex datastreams to other places?

I don't need to do any of those things (and if I wanted to do the latter, I'd be more comfortable using familiar NMEA0183). I already have off-the-shelf instruments that show me what I want to see; I'm not averse to some homebuilt kit massaging data behind the scenes (like my Arduino-based gadget that manages Seatalk1 depth alarms) but I simply don't need a whole software-driven dashboard on a screen somewhere. Likewise I have no interest in recording data - the only possible use I might be interested in is depth and position data to make a sort of ad-hoc personal survey of the harbour bar I'll be going back out over at low tide, but SignalK doesn't add any particular value towards that goal as far as I know.

I have negative interest in running any boat systems on a laptop, particularly a Windows laptop, for space and power reasons. A Raspberry Pi or similar would be acceptable if driving a screen or doing real "computer stuff" like running a database and Web server. Just massaging data flows ought to happen on something smaller like an Arduino or one of the MicroPython boards.

So no, not interested in SignalK because it doesn't solve a problem I have (and gives off something of a "solution looking for a problem" vibe, TBH), and if I was doing something it could help with, I wouldn't want to run it on Windows.

Pete

 

[laika]

I understand "signal K" to refer to a protocol, so asking if I want to install it somewhere doesn't really make sense.

More of a "message format" than a protocol but put any comment I make into the context of me having philosophical differences with some of the design choices the people who develop this incline towards. I like ease and efficiency of processing in low level languages. They want ease of processing in javascript. I fully anticipate them to come back with "Oi! Stop calling our JSON fat!". Also I haven't paid attention for a while so I may be out of date..

A standard SignalK installation is based around a monolithic central server which can accept data from multiple sources (including N2K via canboat and NMEA 0183) and dishes it out to clients in the SignalK JSON format. There is (used to be?) two implementations of this, one javascript and one java. A SignalK server is included in the openplotter distribution which is how I think GHA personally consumes it and I believe that when he talks about "installing SignalK" he means installing a SignalK server and making it available for use (by feeding it data). I believe it also presents an html5 interface to which you can connect a browser to see some of the data rather than consuming JSON.

I applaud the effort to create an open source marine data interchange format but, as previously stated I'm not convinced by some of the axioms the design choices are based on.

 

[vas]

I prefer to use and esp32 and generate NMEA2000 to send all the data to my B&G Vulcan. This, along with the ST70's, will display time plots, gauges and anything almost anything else I could wish for!

you're definitely lucky!

I'd consider myself in the half-geeky category with time to "play" with N2K systems and a boat with 2 old school engines, an old school geny and plenty of juice from 600W solar.
I'd like to (mainly realtime) monitor data that my 3X4inch Garmin GMI10 and my two Garmin plotters (4k and 5k series) WONT do (EGT, hydraulic gearbox pressure are some of them there are more) and I'm generally hitting walls in ways of monitoring data and even more in DISPLAYING that data.

So, in theory I should be interested in a system that could help me do that. Sadly, i'd have to go low level and configure all the gauges (it seems) in which case I may be better off creating custom screens on either small non-waterproof touch screens (have an el'cheapo one configured for lower helm, an EVE2 one under work for f/b) or getting even deeper into programming and widgets and doing all that for android or ios tablets that I have a couple lying around (using a wifi ESP32S to pump data to the ether). So, unless I'm mistaken signalK wont help me. BTW, saw some apps that "do" signalK and they're mainly focusing on mainstream devices as would be needed by a sailor sort of replicating main functions which is not what I'm after nor am I looking for a down below big windows screen.

cheers

V.

 

[GHA]

I currently use Navmonpc to display time histories of NMEA data, typically true wind speed and direction. It is amazing how much more insight you gleen from seeing the variations rather than just looking at a gauge.

:encouragement::encouragement:

Absolutely, you'll see hints and trends hidden in the noise that no way would you ever pick up just looking at the numbers. The signalk servers has an app to write any or all data to a database, simple to create plots of that, like pressure/windspeed/direction or engine temperature etc. Never been interested in racing but guessing this would be gold dust , plot the lot then spot small trends in windspeed / direction, watch VMG for tiny differences when sail tweaking. Plotting really is like turning the lights on.

It is a little clunky and I would be keen to view and log more parameters and other inputs. I already have a laptop with NMEA to USB converters. Can I install and run without the requirement to purchase extra equipment? I would be happy to invest in more equipment is sold on the idea.
Angus

Yes, but bit of a pain at the moment, imho it needs to get easier for windows, most installations on real boats are probably Raspberry Pi's where it's simple to install SigK with Openplotter.

 

[GHA]

btw GHA, can I use one of my leftover ESP32S as a N2K -> SignalK wifi gateway? it's got wifi and it's got a canbus chip connected and working. Any s/w pointers?
V

Look like it maybe?
https://github.com/ttlappalainen/NMEA2000_esp32

 

[GHA]

It needs a cheaper gateway. A pi should be able to do the same job as the 300usd ikommunicate gateway.

Simple to install the sigK server on a Pi, many installations use just that. Match made in heaven

 

[GHA]

There is (used to be?) two implementations of this, one javascript and one java. A SignalK server is included in the openplotter distribution which is how I think GHA personally consumes it and I believe that when he talks about "installing SignalK" he means installing a SignalK server and making it available for use (by feeding it data). I believe it also presents an html5 interface to which you can connect a browser to see some of the data rather than consuming JSON.

Indeed! Bit lax on my part, online the word signalk has morphed a bit day to day to mean the signalk-server. What I think would be for the greater good would be an easy way to install on windows. No great interest on this thread but no one else using it or knows much about the capabilities of the server.

Apps available as of today >

 

[[163233]]

Simple to install the sigK server on a Pi, many installations use just that. Match made in heaven

As I understand it the SigK server isn't a gateway, but handles the request/response for the json stuff. The gateway is the thing that homologates the nmea 0183/2000/seatalk etc data into json messages. Which might be a useful item. I would guess a pi would require additional hardware to handle multiple serial lines but I'm not a hardware person.

 

[rszemeti]

It needs a cheaper gateway. A pi should be able to do the same job as the 300usd ikommunicate gateway.

A Pi does do the job surely? Just run OpenSkipper and it will run as a SignalK server and aggregator with various data sources. From what I recall, OpenCPN uses SignalK as the source of all it's data, and any data source (be it NMEA serial or whatever) is aggregated into the SignalK server stream ... all on a pi.