SIBS 17

Tranona said:
Content deleted
Click to expand...

Good heavens, Mr T! Not sort of the language I'm accustomed to hearing, when from time to time I put 'Osprey' in the forum's search function. :biggrin-new:

It's interesting (to me) that I mainly bought an Osprey because it was as big as many mini-cruisers and far cheaper, though I really wanted a cruiser. Still, I learned to love the dinghy (in about 15 seconds) and now that I'm ready to buy a cruiser, nothing will separate me from the Osprey, whose thrills will atone for the likely sedateness of any cabin-boat.

I'm not sure dinghy-sailing and cabin-boating are comparable...one is routinely so sudden as to be alarming, while the other is like caravanning without the wheels ever stopping.

But I doubt my cabin-boat-handling will suffer much from five years of singlehanding the Osprey, although the experience may have set my expectations unrealistically high.
Anyhow I'm sure owning two (or more) wholly different boats, be they modest or grand, beats the limitations of only having one, so I s'pose I ought to be a boat-show fan...

...unfortunately, I stopped going to the show years ago, because I was so dreadfully bored, even before SWMBO. I didn't know why, but concluded since, that rows of as-yet unowned yachts exhibit little or no individuality, or character. Any quiet marina on a dull day contains widespread evidence of sailors' choices, intelligent (and eccentric and ill-judged) modifications, options and solutions to challenges, which may evoke strong approval, horror or revulsion, but are never boring. I cannot say the same of the boat show. :sleeping:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Tranona said:
My objection is to the assertions that dinghy sailing is a prerequisite for sailing other types of boats and that those who learn in dinghies are somehow "better sailors" than those who come into the pastime through different routes.
Click to expand...

On the whole, I think ex dinghy sailors do make better yacht sailors, as long as they learned to sail dinghies really well. Those who don't spot that may just lack the skills themselves to appreciate the difference. Dunning-Kruger effect and all that. How many Olympic keelboat sailors started on yachts and worked their way down? I am sure that if I could coax Flaming onto my boat for a day he would find ways to tweak sails and improve performance of which I know nothing.

Few people who ride around in BMWs, live in houses that look like those you see in the colour supplements and holiday abroad etc are interested in driving 2 hours on a friday evening to row out to a 1970s Centaur (if there is enough water) and hope the weather stays good enough to sail maybe 15 miles and back.
Click to expand...

Few of them want to drive the beemer to a JenBenBav in a marina either, because the killer is the British climate and the British seaside. Anyone with an ounce of sense (which clearly I lack) sails somewhere warmer and nicer.

Getting back to the thread subject, this is reflected in the show. You only have to look at the demographics of the "serious" people - that is those in discussions with various equipment suppliers or sailmakers and particularly those seriously looking at buying a boat and it is overwhelmingly the mature sector.
Click to expand...

That's probably a bit chicken and egg, but yes, boat ownership is definitely mainly for us oldies. It's a bit like motorbike ownership. When I was a student many of my contemporaries had motorbikes because it was a cheap - and exciting - way to get on the road. Look at any gathering of bikers outside a pub and you see that underneath the leather they are almost all elderly chartered accountant types. Golf is dying as well. And gliding.
 
Last edited:
fredrussell said:
Wow - there really is no accounting for taste. Just had a look at Sirius yachts. Siriously? (apols)
Click to expand...

Seriously, yes - they are lovely boats, but 40 foot is just a bit too short for the concept - they should have gone for closer to 50. As it stands, everything gives the impression of being slightly cramped.
 
JumbleDuck said:
On the whole, I think ex dinghy sailors do make better yacht sailors, as long as they learned to sail dinghies really well. Those who don't spot that may just lack the skills themselves to appreciate the difference. Dunning-Kruger effect and all that. How many Olympic keelboat sailors started on yachts and worked their way down? I am sure that if I could coax Flaming onto my boat for a day he would find ways to tweak sails and improve performance of which I know nothing.
Click to expand...

The problem here is the definition of "sailing" and "sailor". This concentration on squeezing speed out of the boat and feeling the wind as being skills that qualify for being "good" is far too narrow as it only covers a small part of what cruising is about.

Nothing wrong with honing these skills which are of course essential if you want to sail competitively against others who are doing the same thing. However, this about sailing as a sport and there is very little connection between high level sport using boats and your typical cruiser.

I bought my Osprey to sample what others seemed to enjoy, but after 2 years at it realised that I did not enjoy the same things as them. I learned (more or less) how to not be at the back of the fleet, but learned nothing that I did not know already how to get the best out of my cruiser - simply because it did not respond to the same techniques. While it is still common for people, particularly children to learn in dinghies, it is not essential, and would suggest for those who clearly want to cruise it is better to learn on the sort of boat they intend buying. You only have to look at the content of the Day Skipper syllabus to realise how much more there is to know than just how to make the boat go where you want it to under sail.
 
I learned to get the best out of boats via my Caricraft 10, Scorpion, Fireball, International 14, Osprey, Dart 18 & Contender along with others I was a chief instructor on like Wayfarers and the god-awful Express for a start.

Knowing how to get the best out of a sailing boat keeps passage speeds up, helm loads down, and may make all the difference clawing off a lee shore.

I find it hard to understand people who put up with ' just trudging along. '
 
O Gawd ....

Always like to compare the post SIBS/LIBS threads with the previous years offerings of 2016 - 1959 etc.
In my view there is a serious decline in the quality and number of postings, things were much better in the old days...................................... seriously considering not reading this thread next year !
......on the other hand :)
 
Re: O Gawd ....

oldgit said:
Always like to compare the post SIBS/LIBS threads with the previous years offerings of 2016 - 1959 etc.
In my view there is a serious decline in the quality and number of postings, things were much better in the old days...................................... seriously considering not reading this thread next year.
......on the other hand :)
Click to expand...

But their decline is nothing like that of the London Boat Show threads since the move to new servers.
 
Tranona said:
The problem here is the definition of "sailing" and "sailor". This concentration on squeezing speed out of the boat and feeling the wind as being skills that qualify for being "good" is far too narrow as it only covers a small part of what cruising is about.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, there is also cooking bacon and clearing blocked sea toilets, I grant you.
 
JumbleDuck said:
Yeah, well, there is also cooking bacon and clearing blocked sea toilets, I grant you.
Click to expand...

and don't forget dozing in the cockpit on a warm afternoon and throwing dinner parties in the evening! When visiting the new boats at SIBS, my first test is always to check that I can lay comfortably full length in the cockpit and fit half a dozen guests round the table. If it passes those two criteria, then it is worth looking at it.
 
philld said:
Totally agree, I was gobsmacked when I had a good look at the Sirius 40, it had all the features I wanted in a boat for UK waters. I liked the little details like the water/oil filters being mounted outside the engine compartment in the workshop area. ......
Click to expand...

I missed the workshop - fortunately - that could have been the additional feature that tipped us over into even more poverty! :-)
 
JumbleDuck said:
Yeah, well, there is also cooking bacon and clearing blocked sea toilets, I grant you.
Click to expand...

Dealing with excessive heat is the real doozey. In all my years of dinghy sailing I never remember thinking that it's too hot out here so I think I'll pack up and go home.... Usually quite the opposite.

Now, big yacht sailing without air conditioning is a whole different ball game and it was not covered at all on my RYA course.

That's my experience anyway.

Richard
 
laika said:
There is still a dinghy and day boat section which doesn't look any smaller than previous years, possibly slightly larger (though maybe on in comparison to the rest of the show...).
Click to expand...
That part was occupying roughly the same area as previous years, but there were fewer exhibitors than before so each occupied more space, plus there were more non-boaty stands in that area and the biggest coffee space I have ever seen just at the foot of the stairs.

I am sure in previous years you would get some dinghies inside the pavillions and I don't think there were any there this year.


It also contained a number of paddle boards, river boats etc. Laser were conspicuous by their absence.
 
bedouin said:
That part was occupying roughly the same area as previous years, but there were fewer exhibitors than before so each occupied more space, plus there were more non-boaty stands in that area and the biggest coffee space I have ever seen just at the foot of the stairs.

I am sure in previous years you would get some dinghies inside the pavillions and I don't think there were any there this year.


It also contained a number of paddle boards, river boats etc. Laser were conspicuous by their absence.
Click to expand...

I suspect that the impact on sales for the vendors of expensive items is quite small and the cost of being there is high. Visiting the boat show is not going to make me spend many thousands, or tens of thousands, that I did not intend to - those are more carefully considered, researched and planned purchases. Most years, we do come away with a few small items that we had not planned - a new jacket or pair of deck shoes - that sort of thing.
 
maby said:
I suspect that the impact on sales for the vendors of expensive items is quite small and the cost of being there is high. Visiting the boat show is not going to make me spend many thousands, or tens of thousands, that I did not intend to - those are more carefully considered, researched and planned purchases. Most years, we do come away with a few small items that we had not planned - a new jacket or pair of deck shoes - that sort of thing.
Click to expand...
One of the reasons I went was to research boats in the large dinghy to weekender range and that area was very under-represented so I was a bit frustrated. The wayfarers were there, the Laser Stratos not so that makes me favout the former.

It was also noticable that many manufacturers seem to leave their smaller boats behind too - no Arcona 340, Hanse 31/34 etc.

If it is too expensive to bring the smaller boats then they need to look at reducing the costs
 
Is the Laser Stratos still being manufactured? I know they stopped building the unballasted version years ago, but I can't see the keel version on the Laser website, either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top