SIBS 17

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NB Accountants do not MAKE anything...

One doesn't necessarily need to make anything to be part of a value creation chain. A society such as our needs an ordered capital system to facilitate wealth creation, transfer and consumption - accountants are a large part of the control and measurement of our capital system.

 

[longjohnsilver]

My word, people pay for a ticket still?

I don't. But then I don't go to SIBS.

 

[Boathook]

I don't. But then I don't go to SIBS.

I'm going to SIBS on a free ticket from / via the RYA.

 

[Heckler]

I'm going to SIBS on a free ticket from / via the RYA.

and me!
Stu

 

[derekgillard]

Went today left it to last min so had to buy a ticket online £15, felt it was good value spent 3-4 hours wandering around some interesting small stands

All in all enjoyed it.

 

[Seajet]

One doesn't necessarily need to make anything to be part of a value creation chain. A society such as our needs an ordered capital system to facilitate wealth creation, transfer and consumption - accountants are a large part of the control and measurement of our capital system.

Thankyou for concisely summing up all that is wrong with post - Thatcher Britain, I particularly like the phrase ' value creation chain ' - did the ghost of George Orwell tell you that one ?!

 

[alant]

As I see it we have two choices;

as an owner not wishing to buy another boat, I could take selfish delight in less people cluttering up the place.

But as an enthusiast I have always been delighted when introducing / instructing newcomers to sailing, the main reason I dislike singlehanding is that I want to share the experience, turn round and say ' wow isn't this great ! '

I've seen the British aircraft industry destroyed by accountants who didn't know an aeroplane from an aarvark - quote " If washing machines prove more profitable we'll make them ", the financial figures involved were too huge for sensible people to defy; that is not the case with boatbuilding, a decent place in the UK could make proper small boats now if given the incentive.

It has always been my dream to run a boatyard in Cornwall ( or the Isle of Wight ) and employ the many skilled people there with a decent salary; it's not too late to stop the ignorant accountants turning such places into an irreversible ' Chelsea On Sea ' for a quick buck while living in ghastly places like London.

The business of business, has always been money, not product.

 

[bedouin]

One good thing about SIBS is that it makes me feel young. There aren't many gatherings these days where I am below the average age!

 

[maby]

The British sailing industry needs a wake-up call.

The London show has been dead for years - you couldn't pay me enough to visit the soul-less, difficult to get to and decent boatless Excel again - and now any new punter visiting SIBS will think sailing is just for the very rich, a myth the media are happy to promote.

The sailing magazines who put these forums up are going straight down the tubes, partly because printed media is failing, but also because they fail to connect with their die-hard followers, instead featuring fancy big new boats few of us are interested in let alone can afford - and fence sitting ' mustn't get sued ' reviews.

We need a real boat show, with dinghies and smaller cruisers - this may well involve secondhand boats - as well as the silly expensive new large jobs; no sailor worth their salt didn't do their time first on dinghies, and people on moderate incomes need to know there's a way to realise their dreams without a lottery win.

Bit unfair to target "the British Sailing Industry" for your criticism - there were several very nice small boats on display from British manufacturers - Swallow Yachts and Cornish Crabbers. The foreign manufacturers pay a lot less attention to the entry level of the market than the British makers. I've been going to SIBS for about eight years now and there has never been much of a display of dinghies there - there is a separate show (used to be around Ally Pally) for that.

If the demand for small entry level boats was there, Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria would be all over it like a rash. They have the production lines, the experienced staff, the procurement and sales channels and they could be knocking out 20-odd foot boats by the thousands. But the demand simply isn't there - those Swallows looked like lovely little boats - and there were a handful of people looking at them - but it's the pontoons round the 30, 40 and 50 footers that are crowded to the point of sinking.

 

[JumbleDuck]

But the demand simply isn't there - those Swallows looked like lovely little boats - and there were a handful of people looking at them - but it's the pontoons round the 30, 40 and 50 footers that are crowded to the point of sinking.

At motor shows do Ford Mondeos or Bentley Continentals attract more attention?

 

[maby]

At motor shows do Ford Mondeos or Bentley Continentals attract more attention?

quite true - but I guess the difference is that a car is effectively an essential in the modern world - everyone admires supercars, but most of us have to settle for Mondeos. Boats are not essentials - everyone wants to look at superyachts (or, at least, 40+ footers) and those of us that can afford them, buy them. A lot of those that can't afford to spend a quarter of a million or more on a boat simply go home and dream of the time when they can.

 

[dslittle]

no sailor worth their salt didn't do their time first on dinghies, and people on moderate incomes need to know there's a way to realise their dreams without a lottery win.

Wow. About 20000 miles and never sailed a dinghy. How did I do it??

 

[maby]

Wow. About 20000 miles and never sailed a dinghy. How did I do it??

Though, while it is not quite as black and white as SJ would like to paint it, I do think that coming up via dinghies does make for a better sailor. I've seen people sailing large cruisers who obviously have absolutely no wind-sense whatsoever - sitting in a Wayfarer with the boom at head height does rather knock it into you!

 

[Tranona]

Wow. About 20000 miles and never sailed a dinghy. How did I do it??

Same way as others. Nothing difficult about learning to sail on bigger boats, or later in life.

The only people who say you need to sail dinghies first to be capable are those who did it that way. They totally lack experience of doing it any other way so are simply not qualified to have an opinion. as you see it also gives them a sense of undeserved superiority!

 

[dslittle]

Though, while it is not quite as black and white as SJ would like to paint it, I do think that coming up via dinghies does make for a better sailor. I've seen people sailing large cruisers who obviously have absolutely no wind-sense whatsoever - sitting in a Wayfarer with the boom at head height does rather knock it into you!

I totally agree and some of the best sailors I know started off on dinghies but it was a bit of a sweeping generalisation that 'any sailor worth his salt'...

 

[bedouin]

The only people who say you need to sail dinghies first to be capable are those who did it that way. They totally lack experience of doing it any other way so are simply not qualified to have an opinion. as you see it also gives them a sense of undeserved superiority!

As opposed to those who have learned on a larger boat and totally lack experience of doing it any other way. So are simply not qualified to have an opinion, as you see it also gives them a sense of undeserved superiority

Since no one can have experience of both no one can be qualified to comment one way or the other - so I shall carefully avoid doing so.

 

[Sybarite]

Maybe but in my experience shooting ' the messengers ' - with their salaries - first would be a good step in the right direction !

NB Accountants do not MAKE anything...

Accountants are good at measuring success. because, if you can't establish objectives and measure the results against them, you cannot manage. And if you don't know where you are going then any route is good...

Your caricature of an accountant shows your (mental) immaturity.

 

[Sybarite]

If the demand for small entry level boats was there, Beneteau, Jeanneau and Bavaria would be all over it like a rash. They have the production lines, the experienced staff, the procurement and sales channels and they could be knocking out 20-odd foot boats by the thousands.....

They are.

 

[jwilson]

Though, while it is not quite as black and white as SJ would like to paint it, I do think that coming up via dinghies does make for a better sailor. I've seen people sailing large cruisers who obviously have absolutely no wind-sense whatsoever - sitting in a Wayfarer with the boom at head height does rather knock it into you!

+1 Or even better planing downwind in a Laser whilst sailing by the lee - which is faster than not sailing by the lee. Mistake = very rapid swim. There are some very skilled cruising sailors who have never sailed dinghies, but there are an awful lot more whose sail trimming is pretty rubbish. Also some who sail the instrument dials, not the boat.

And before serious racers insist that instruments are good, I'm not talking about polars and target speeds, just people who sail to windward watching the little dial wander around 45-50 degrees.

 

[Giblets]

Yet again another thread whose original content may have been useful to some of us has descended into a farcical willy waving contest.