Should yachtsmen pay for motorboat accidents?

[Dominic_Byers]

This week's Great YM Debate:

Leading insurance companies are now saying that yacht insurance premiums are going to go up by as much as 25per cent partly because novice users of large powerboats are having too many accidents. Should yachtsmen's premiums be assessed separately from powerboat users premiums?

Yachting Monthly

 

[Viking]

No debate!
No we shouldnt.

 

[claymore]

Compass

I think its a safer subject really - and anyway, the insurers will do as they see fit so whatever the debate it'll not make a lot of difference.
regards
JS

 

[Dave_Snelson]

As a keen (and responsible) motor boater, I would suggest that irresponsible power boat owners should be penalised, not responsible yachtsmen. It could actually be easier than dealing with poor motorists.

Where I launch at Porthmadog, you cannot use the slipway or beach launch without a valid cert of insurance. So if you were to be banned by your insurer, you would effectively be banned from the water.

I would, however, apply that rule to all water users.

Cheers.

 

[bedouin]

Re: You mean they\'re not already?

I think that insurance premiums should fairly reflect the risk the insurance company is carrying - and so the more significant information they know on which to determine the risk the better. I am surprised that you are implying that is not the case; if not then on section of the boating population is subsidising another, and there seems little justification for that.

In the motor insurance industry, companies have very sophisticated statistics to calculate the risk you represent - why not the same in the boat insurance market.

So what parameters do they use? Value?

What is also not clear is why increasing powerboat accident rates should increase yachts insurance - is it because the yotties are having to claim on their own insurance for powerboat damage, or because of increased 3rd party payouts on the powerboat insurance?

 

[bedouin]

Re: Another thought

Your posting stresses that it is novice powerboaters that cause the problems. As far as I am aware none of the marine insurance companies have experience requirements, or offer discounts for qualified owners. None even seem to offer No Claims Discounts schemes.

Rising claims could be the catalyst for a more sophisticated insurance market, from which we would all benefit in the long run.

 

[HaraldS]

My insurer sent me a letter early this year and announced that he'll have to hike the premium by around 21%. When I called them to extend the area, which formerly was European waters up to 200 miles offshore, to basically the whole North Atlantic, but not the Caribian Islands, they said that would be for no extra price, since people who do that, hardly have problems.

In talking about the steep increase, I was told that the underwritters had been hiking their prices dramatically, since last year appearantly has been a desaster for the insurance industry.

By the way, when I frist insured my boat I got an instant no-claims rebate of 40%, that they would reduce gradually if I had claims. So, rates do not seem to be totally undiscriminated. And percentage wise the ship insurance is just 20% of what my car insurance is. I guess it can only get worse..

 

[paulineb]

Insurance companies will never decrease their premiums, they'll carrying on making excuses as to why they increase year after year. This year it's the fault of powerboaters, next year PWCs perhaps?

And on sort of the same subject, with the ever increasing number of roads being made smaller to encompass cycle lanes, should cyclists not be made to pay some sort of road fund licence and shouldn't they also be insured - they cause quite a lot of accidents whether through bad road sense, no lights etc.

Pxx

 

[tcm]

Re: should yotties pay for piss-poor journalism?

Can't you do any better? This seems so shallow. I haven't seen anti-yottie articles in motor boat mags.

Try looking deeper. How about premiums going up (or, as you'd say "leaping") by what seems a very arbitrary 25% being as a result of insurance co's reckoning that ("already hard-pressed") yotties will coff up anyway? Are there really far more claims for ("speed crazy")powerboats ? And have the claims increased ("rocketed") over the last year? What's the split motor/sail for (say) GJW? What about the loading anyway for planing boats ("Gin palaces") ?

 

[tcm]

Re: oh no it isn\'t

You get stuck in, you wuss! Look (crash) i've just e-smashed a chair over your head!

 

[paulineb]

Can a Rev say piss poor? ?

I wish you'd get off the fence, Your Holiness, and say exactly what you mean, all this pussyfooting and farting about will have your congregation nodding off

Pxx

 

[AndrewB]

Yes, he certainly can on this one ...

Great DEBATE? Great rant more like.

Mind you, the b**** stinkpot who queue-jumped me at the fuel pump last week and then made me wait 1/2 hr for my 10 galls while he shipped 5,000 litres, will face a major insurance claim if he tries that one again.

 

[bedouin]

Re: Yes, he certainly can on this one ...

Would that be on his boat insurance or private medical insurance?

 

[paulineb]

Oooooh

Raggie Rage. Now be nice and stop the feuding ;-)

Pxx

 

[Guest]

Re: Sh*te u write

The Great YM Debate? More like the same old toss. Is this the best you can do? I concur with tcm's (and others) view of this cr@p posting (which follows on from ill-informed cr@p published in YMs passim). Is YM really reduced to lowest-common-denominator publishing? Have you really got nothing better to do than publish ill-informed, divisive drivel such as this? Can't be arsed to point out just why this posting is so stupid because you already know it. Piss-poor attempt to stir the readership and give the appearance of being the champions of the little man. Are you Marian in disguise?

 

[claymore]

Re: oh no it isn\'t

Oh God - sorry vicar - oh dear. NO they shouldn't - why should I fund some gormless pillock who has more money than senseand doesn't know his arse from his elbow? Bring in legislation - make it compulsory that they all have to pass a test which involves a slalom around lobster pots (remember that one?) in 8 knots of tide, then reverse it. Make sure they can use a sextant - even at night and get them to strip down and rebuild a 6 cyl. Lehman (Blindfolded) then if they still want insurance get them to pay 5 years up front as a non - refundable deposit.
Finally - section off an area around the Goodwin Sands and make them all stay in it - forever.
OK Matts - I've joined in. Still think Compass is a better topic!

 

[zefender]

Re: Scams, scams and insurers

Bedouin is right to argue that the insurers should look a little deeper than boat value but I'm not sure they do. In fact, I'm not sure they do much calculation at all. My premium from May 2001 was £648, as a new boat and a first time owner (though I have reasonable experience and YM quals etc). I got no NCB. At the 2002 EC boat show, I sought alternative quotes. Pantaneus offered a 40% NCB discount (because I have had the boat for the first season without crashing it) yet the net quote was £780. This tells me that the gross quote was £1300 - yeah sure. My existing insurer has quoted about the same as last year, but this year with a NCB!

To me, this says that insurers don't actually apply NCBs at all. If they can't apply a NCB, then I'm sure they can't produce differential rates for type of boat, length of boat or type of skipper. Presumably owning a boat, just like a car, in different parts of the country produces a differential risk. Is there a difference in the premium?

There must surely be someone from the marine insurance community on the forum - come on, do tell.

Oooh I think I've found a purpose for another forum. How about the insurance premium database? People log in type of boat, experience of skipper, value and this years and last years premium, by company. We can then produce a multiple regression line to see what (if any) factor determines premium.

In answer to Dominic's question - no... yachties shouldn't be forced to pay up more to pay for novice motorboaters, but neither should safe motorboaters be forced to either.

 

[claymore]

Re: Sh*te u write

Could you be a little more specific?

 

[Guest]

Re: Sh*te u write

Probably, but I'd get a slap from the Kimatollah. Think I'd better leave this one alone ;o)

 

[zefender]

Re: lobster slaloms

In my future world, there would be no lobster pots to slalom around. Your only taking that stance because as a motorsailor you might get caught either way.

And I think Masaccio is just being cheeky - judging by the piccie. Anyway, why are you showing a picture of my missus?