Should we be alarmed? Proposed removal 350 navigational buoys USA North East.

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When I say this, I thought'eek what if they only have 351'?

Turns out they may have as many as 50,000.

Lots of information online about the consultation process and local objections.
351 in 50,000 might not sound much unless its the one you need or use!

Agree that there are probably some that are less important

This one of my favourites...
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Well there are .ots of local objections where its felt they are necessary. Seems like the majority are in the US north east and will be about 6% of the total if fully implemented.

Should leisure boat owners be paying light duty? Does happen in some countries, I understand.
 
Whilst I am sympathetic to that view to a point - in the last couple of years in particular gps’ have shown themselves to being particularly susceptible to bad actors and prone to being jammed/spoofed
If you were really worried about that you would install Radar.
If someone said to me "You've headlights on your car, why do we need cat's eyes or streetlights? People can carry torches if they're walking at night. Why should the tax payer have to fork out because of the few holdouts who refuse to wear a headtorch?", I'd not have to think for long about how smart a person that is.
The buoy is there to help when other stuff mightn't work.
and yet we don’t have street lights on all roads, or even cats eyes everywhere… it’s like someone has to make an economic balancing act to decide if these things actually still make sense in these locations.
 
If someone said to me "You've headlights on your car, why do we need cat's eyes or streetlights? People can carry torches if they're walking at night. Why should the tax payer have to fork out because of the few holdouts who refuse to wear a headtorch?", I'd not have to think for long about how smart a person that is.
The buoy is there to help when other stuff mightn't work.
I hope that you do realise that cat's eyes only work because they reflect the light from your headlights.
 
There used to be seventeen lit navigation buoys marking the Cope Passage through the Sound of Harris. Now there are none, but the Cope Passage still exists, and is used by some.
Quite a few years ago now, the Northern Lighthouse Board, responsible for buoys and lighthouses in Scottish waters, realised that they had quite a number of "blind" ie unlit buoys. They did away with them. Life continued much as before.
 
Seen as the is America and I am no longer welcome then I am not really bothered as it is nothing to do with me.
However if as part of cost cutting in the UK then I am not sure that I think it a good idea.
 
Eh? What's the sun reflected off? You're confused between light sources, and the reflected light off surfaces.
Eyes see things as a process where light reflects off objects, enters the eye, gets focused by the cornea and lens onto the retina, which converts it into electrical signals, and then the optic nerve sends these signals to the brain, which interprets them as recognizable images, flipping them right-side up and adding color/depth

I didn't find that confusing at all.....
 
They could simply unshackle the mooring gears and let the floaters drift towards northern Europe where they could be used as free replacement beacons for local scrappy ones, they are American so obviously must the best in the world, as we hear daily. An added advantage of the Gulf Stream besides palm trees :D Mind you, laterals would need some paint touch up, that IALA A/B stuff.
 
Eyes see things as a process where light reflects off objects, enters the eye, gets focused by the cornea and lens onto the retina, which converts it into electrical signals, and then the optic nerve sends these signals to the brain, which interprets them as recognizable images, flipping them right-side up and adding color/depth

I didn't find that confusing at all.....
So I ask again, what's the sun reflected off when you see it? No amount of quoting Wikipedia please.
 
I hope that you do realise that cat's eyes only work because they reflect the light from your headlights.
In my defence, it was entered as such to illustrate that it's an aid. All aids should be gratefully accepted. These buoys, that they're possibly removing, won't affect the majority of vessels, but what it's doing is removing one slice of "Swiss Cheese", which will reduce the safety margin for those who need it the most.
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Would that be those special underwater radars that show up sand banks etc?
GPS doesn’t show you the location of the sand banks it shows you where you are relative to chart. Likewise Radar shows you where you are relative to the fixed objects above the water. If for some reason you really need to go particularly close to sand banks, especially sand banks which move - then if the bouys can be relied on to guide you through that is great (but they are unlikely to be the ones that any navigation authority is removing). In that case though they can no longer be trusted to give you the exact position referred to above as they may have moved! If this really is your reality then in the absence of bouys you may need forward looking sonar (underwater radar effectively!) and great caution - but unless you trust charts to miraculously update between your visits that might be helpful anyway!
 
GPS doesn’t show you the location of the sand banks it shows you where you are relative to chart. Likewise Radar shows you where you are relative to the fixed objects above the water. If for some reason you really need to go particularly close to sand banks, especially sand banks which move - then if the bouys can be relied on to guide you through that is great (but they are unlikely to be the ones that any navigation authority is removing). In that case though they can no longer be trusted to give you the exact position referred to above as they may have moved! If this really is your reality then in the absence of bouys you may need forward looking sonar (underwater radar effectively!) and great caution - but unless you trust charts to miraculously update between your visits that might be helpful anyway!
I have been trying to imagine what navigating without marks would be like. In places like the Thames Estuary, for example, I am far from convinced that radar would be a direct alternative to a GPS chartplotter due to the underwater hazards. However, I have never used radar, so perhaps it is possible. Or did I misunderstand your post 23?
 
I have been trying to imagine what navigating without marks would be like. In places like the Thames Estuary, for example, I am far from convinced that radar would be a direct alternative to a GPS chartplotter due to the underwater hazards. However, I have never used radar, so perhaps it is possible. Or did I misunderstand your post 23?
Come to Scotland then. Probably have at least 2/3rds of UK coastline and more than our fair share of hidden rocks.
But generally only have official navigation buoys marking routes used by ferries and/or commercial ships.
 
I have been trying to imagine what navigating without marks would be like. In places like the Thames Estuary, for example, I am far from convinced that radar would be a direct alternative to a GPS chartplotter due to the underwater hazards. However, I have never used radar, so perhaps it is possible. Or did I misunderstand your post 23?
I think you’ve understood the gist - that IF the PLA (or whoever looks after the bouys) decides to get rid of navigation bouys AND someone maliciously interferes with AIS and GPS then Radar would seem to provide an alternative way to affirm your location when you can’t see shore landmarks. I think it’s unlikely that the PLA would be removing the bouys anythime soon though.
 
Nothing more important than having a definite and exact position fix in fog if you have no electronic aids.
Assuming, of course, the mark is on-station. At West Highland Week, the race committee used a southerly cardinal mark off Kerrera as a mark of the course. Only one boat sank, after several hit the rock the mark was supposed to be marking but wasn't because it was off-station.
 
Assuming, of course, the mark is on-station. At West Highland Week, the race committee used a southerly cardinal mark off Kerrera as a mark of the course. Only one boat sank, after several hit the rock the mark was supposed to be marking but wasn't because it was off-station.

Interesting, when was that? Just curious, not doubting.
 
The buoy is there to help when other stuff mightn't work.
Sorry but times when GPS let me down:0
Times when buoyage let me down >10

I’ve had no buoy, wrong buoy, two buoys, same light pattern and colour in a single harbour (Dublin, so far from trivial), buoy in wrong place, buoy in dangerous place, buoy on admiralty ship being replaced.

Perhaps I pay more attention than most, but buoys have been utterly hopeless. I’ve yet to have a single issue with GPS despite sailing in military areas often.
 
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