Shoestring cruising plan - advice/critique?

[prestomg27]

Cant remember meeting any that "failed". LOTS that talked about "next year....just got to finish". It's not refitting, is fear of the unknown.
A good few that only got so far "we just really liked it here & stayed" Cruising is one long refit anyway, doesn't take that much to make a half decent boat ocean seaworthy. In a cold damp boatyard you'll have no idea what's actually important for a cruising boat.

Indeed. Look at those Sailing Cadoha people on youtube. Started with intentions to sail around the World and found they get seasick and have a whole youtube chanel where they only go as far as dartmouth to falmouth.

 

[Kelpie]

Don't worry I'm rather doggedly stubborn and won't be put off easily!
Thanks all for the advice. I've reconsidered my choice of looking for a boat abroad. I see the value of an extra few months to work on a boat if I buy locally sooner. That would also allow me to keep my job right up until heading south and add an extra few grand to the kitty, in fact, today I viewed a boat at a local club which has new sails and standing rigging, previous owner an engineer. Going to sleep on putting an offer in.

Especially appreciate the encouraging words from those who are out there doing it! I do wonder how many people have been put off by the perception that this is a completely inaccessible lifestyle.

Regardless of better judgment, I'll be heading south come the end of summer. If I fail, then I'll move on to other things, but despite the challenges I'm confident. In terms of budget, on land excluding accommodation I spend no more than £600 a month, and around £200 of that is petrol getting to work. On a small, simple boat, with all the big jobs (hopefully!) out the way and handling as much maintenance as possible myself, avoiding marinas and burning diesel, should I really expect to spend that much more than I do on land?

Do you have an EU member state passport? Easiest way to stay in Schengen indefinitely.
If you do, then you could do a lot worse than Galicia and the Algarve. There's enough free anchorages that you can avoid marina fees (and even those aren't too bad) but cost of living is low, we found it cheaper and better than the UK. Easy flights home if required. Chandlers a bit more expensive than the UK, but you've got SVB and Amazon, if you can find a friendly marina willing to take deliveries.

We spent our first winter in Portimao. Very fond memories of our time there. Lovely anchorage which is tenable most of the time, and affordable marina for when you need it.

 

[Daydream believer]

When my wife & I tried it, all advice said it would cost average £100 Pweek. We spent something like £ 500 at first. That dropped after a while, but we found it difficult to live like paupers, so never got down to the £100 mark.

 

[GHA]

My only advice is that it will all cost more than you expect.

Things you budgeted for will often in practice cost more than you expect, and things that you haven't budgeted for will be required.

Gets much better once you get the hang of it though. Never set foot in a yacht chandlers, most sizable towns will have a fishing fleet so buy stuff where they do. Industrial stainless places are very common, go there to stock up on 316 studding & fasteners. Often there will be a local sailors bar which will let you get ebay stuff posted to. Tractor shops for engine spares. Caravan shops always worth a look.
Back to the OP, once you get the boat might be a good idea to make a start on ebay now when you have an address, list is never ending - butyl tape for leaks, 12v-usb chargers, tools, dyneema/rope/bungie, cruising guides are nice to have but don't need to be brand new these days with so much crowd sourced data online so can be successful to set up some alerts on ebay to catch any individuals selling. Can save a fortune buying at your pace rather than when the need arises. And sneaking it slowly into the budget feels better

should I really expect to spend that much more than I do on land?

Probably less a lot of the time depending on your tastes. And far healthier living on fresh unprocessed food from down the market.

 

[Tranona]

Don't worry I'm rather doggedly stubborn and won't be put off easily!
Thanks all for the advice. I've reconsidered my choice of looking for a boat abroad. I see the value of an extra few months to work on a boat if I buy locally sooner. That would also allow me to keep my job right up until heading south and add an extra few grand to the kitty, in fact, today I viewed a boat at a local club which has new sails and standing rigging, previous owner an engineer. Going to sleep on putting an offer in.

Especially appreciate the encouraging words from those who are out there doing it! I do wonder how many people have been put off by the perception that this is a completely inaccessible lifestyle.

Regardless of better judgment, I'll be heading south come the end of summer. If I fail, then I'll move on to other things, but despite the challenges I'm confident. In terms of budget, on land excluding accommodation I spend no more than £600 a month, and around £200 of that is petrol getting to work. On a small, simple boat, with all the big jobs (hopefully!) out the way and handling as much maintenance as possible myself, avoiding marinas and burning diesel, should I really expect to spend that much more than I do on land?

This might be worth looking at. Good pedigree and others have used then before
michaelschmidt.co.uk/msp-boat/boat-list/Halcyon_27_eilidh

 

[Kelpie]

Probably less a lot of the time depending on your tastes.

Compared to my old life, I now use far less petrol and diesel, no electricity bills, no insurance (shock horror), spend almost nothing on clothes (hardly wear anything, it's too hot).
In Europe, good was generally cheaper. In the Caribbean, considerably more expensive.
We don't bother adding it all up so I don't really know what the actual budget is. Keeping the boat in good condition is probably the biggest expense.
This year we are on track to spend nothing on marinas- last time we used one was in Tenerife.

 

[BobnLesley]

...All the toys will likely break at some point though. Good idea to keep that in mind & make sure the boat doesn't need much to cross oceans.

A key principal for budget cruising is: "If you don't fit it, then it can't break, but if it's already fitted and working, then try to avoid using it as it'll break."
Our own electronic wind indicator (already fitted when we bought the boat) eventually died in the USA and to be honest, I was glad to see the back of it: Reef or shake out when it feels and looks the right thing to do - that little screen doesn't have eyes to look at the clouds or a seat to its pants to feel the sea condition and the direction that it indicates is far less accurate than the windex arrow at the masthead, or better yet, the two bits of tape sewn around the rigging wire at a comfortably visible height. When you're out at sea with the wind blowing 30 knots and it eases to 25, you'll feel the difference, you won't need a screen to tell you; conversely, if it's blowing 30 and increases to 35, you'll feel that difference too, but with a screen confirming it, you'll only feel worse as you can't pretend that you're just imagining it.
In our experience GPS, depth sounder and reliable self-steering were vital (though we once coped six weeks in the Ionian without depth) while a speed log to compare against the GPS, Chart Plotter and AIS were very useful (though we sailed much of the Med without any of those) but all the rest come under bells and whistles.

 

[BobnLesley]

Indeed. Look at those Sailing Cadoha people on youtube. Started with intentions to sail around the World and found they get seasick and have a whole youtube chanel where they only go as far as dartmouth to falmouth.

Offshore sailing is a bit like climbing big mountains, it's not so much a matter of ability/fitness/quality of equipment which makes the difference, but your mindset and you really won't know for sure whether you have that until you actually try it.
In most respects, sailing a yacht across an ocean is safer (think the difference between driving on a motorway rather than in a city-centre) and certainly less technically challenging than coast-hopping around the UK; I've also long held that the UK/Northern Europe is the optimum place to start from:
By the time you've got yourself across the Channel shipping-lanes you've learnt about those - Once you've cleared the Channel Islands and Brittany you've definitely learnt about tides - Crossing Biscay gives you a first/small taste of heading out into the big blue while you're still in a position to turn around if it's not for you. - The run down Portugal provides very similar wind/sea conditions to the Atlantic crossing so you can test/check that your self-steering and sail handling set-ups all work as expected while still in an area where you can fix/alter/replace them - Then from the Algarve to the Canaries you get to go out and do it 'for real' for a week. If at that point it's still for you, then you know all you need to know and have the mental capacity to sail on to the Caribbean and if it's not, then you're still in a location where it's economically feasible to get someone to sail the boat back home, or at least up to the security of the Med for you.
By way of comparison, we met an awful lot of US cruisers whose very first taste of open sea sailing/passage-making had been the day that they sailed out of Chesapeake Bay or Long Island Sound and set off on their 10-14 day trip to the Caribbean. You might think 'well, that's only half the distance to the Caribbean that the Canaries are', but having done both, I can assure you that the conditions you're likely to encounter on that passage are far more than twice as difficult as those you'll face on a trans-At from the Canaries.

 

[ylop]

Am I reading this right that you are planning with lots of dinghy but no yacht experience to buy a small old yacht and sail it single handed across the atlantic in your first season? I don't think budget will be your biggest problem.

 

[GHA]

Am I reading this right that you are planning with lots of dinghy but no yacht experience to buy a small old yacht and sail it single handed across the atlantic in your first season? I don't think budget will be your biggest problem.

Based on what? Met enough people have done very similar, sailing is the easy part, it's all maintenance. Pop in to Dakar there will likely still be a few French kids on cheap boats learning along the way. Reminds me of having a beer with a German kid in a shack bar in Brasil I first met in the Canaries "OK, now I know ze boat from front to back, every nut, every bolt. So... about ze sailing bit..."
Sounds like you're the one that can't do it, scary monsters from the ID..

 

[Kelpie]

Am I reading this right that you are planning with lots of dinghy but no yacht experience to buy a small old yacht and sail it single handed across the atlantic in your first season? I don't think budget will be your biggest problem.

If he singlehands across Biscay without incident and feels like he wants to continue, I reckon he'll be fine. I like BobnLesley's summary about how each step of the way is incremental, with bail out options.
I'd add that we found Cape Verde another useful stepping stone- our first stop outside Europe, good preparation for what the Caribbean feels like.

 

[ylop]

Based on what? Met enough people have done very similar, sailing is the easy part, it's all maintenance.

Exactly - the sailings the easy bit, but is the only bit he has experience of. The navigation (and planning around weather and tides etc) can be learned and is much simpler in 2023 than even 1993. But what you get from experience actually sailing is problem solving / maintenance. They are skills you want to learn either close to safe havens or with experienced brains around. Learning to sail at night will be a whole new skill for a dinghy sailor. Sailing 24hrs and sleeping 20 min stints another challenge again.

If he singlehands across Biscay without incident and feels like he wants to continue, I reckon he'll be fine.

biscay will go one of three ways:

1. Unusually smooth - and he’ll be boosted in confidence and crack on possibly with success.

2. disastrously - and he’ll be get rescued or worse

3. Traumatically - the sort of epic adventure that with 2 or 3 on board would be a legend of pubs for years to come, but alone in the dark on huge seas might put you off for life.

I’m not saying don’t do it: either make a friends or build up with a year of coastal sailing.

 

[Seastoke]

Just a question off topic, well as a motor boat owner we don’t have the capability to go long distances . So say you guys go across Biscay on your own , if you use auto steering and wind changes , what do you do. Also how do you sail when asleep and safely.

 

[GHA]

Just a question off topic, well as a motor boat owner we don’t have the capability to go long distances . So say you guys go across Biscay on your own , if you use auto steering and wind changes , what do you do. Also how do you sail when asleep and safely.

These days I have an off course alarm but for years & thousands of miles it didn't really matter much, sleep would be 2 hours max & the wind wouldn't change too much in that time, or if the weather meant it might you wouldn't be sleeping for too long. That's sailing to the wind with a windvane. Awake it's no problem, too far off course just do what needs to be done.
Sleeping there is always an AIS & radar alarm set so you know a vessel is there before it appears over the horizon.

 

[MaxCG]

Do you have an EU member state passport? Easiest way to stay in Schengen indefinitely.
If you do, then you could do a lot worse than Galicia and the Algarve. There's enough free anchorages that you can avoid marina fees (and even those aren't too bad) but cost of living is low, we found it cheaper and better than the UK. Easy flights home if required. Chandlers a bit more expensive than the UK, but you've got SVB and Amazon, if you can find a friendly marina willing to take deliveries.

We spent our first winter in Portimao. Very fond memories of our time there. Lovely anchorage which is tenable most of the time, and affordable marina for when you need it.

I do actually (half French). I have fixated perhaps a bit on the Caribbean, but I can see that staying in Europe might be a more practical choice for my first season. As some above have said I'll likely have a much clearer idea once across Biscay.

I don't think I mentioned singlehanding specifically! I have yet to find out what is most uncomfortable, trying to keep some semblance of a watch alone or sharing a tiny boat on a long passage with someone I may not like.

I do consider myself to be very inexperienced but I'm not a complete novice. I've done about 2500 miles as crew including the Irish sea in winter and Biscay in a force 7. I'm not looking at this purely through the youtube dream goggles.

 

[PlanB]

The issue of Biscay reminded me that insurers often have firm views about single handed crossings, especially with limited experience, and I suspect it will be the same for an Atlantic crossing.
OP may want to investigate insurance as soon as he gets his boat.

 

[RupertW]

The issue of Biscay reminded me that insurers often have firm views about single handed crossings, especially with limited experience, and I suspect it will be the same for an Atlantic crossing.
OP may want to investigate insurance as soon as he gets his boat.

But insurance isn’t too big a deal if you don’t mind being uninsured on the crossing, as we have done. Much more important getting insurance at either end in case you hit something very expensive, or they hit you and dispute that their expensive damage was their fault.

 

[Kelpie]

We were uninsured for the crossing. There's not much out there to run in to really, compared to coastal cruising.

They wanted a third adult on board, apparently our third crew member being five years old meant he didn't count.

 

[doug748]

I do actually (half French). I have fixated perhaps a bit on the Caribbean, but I can see that staying in Europe might be a more practical choice for my first season. As some above have said I'll likely have a much clearer idea once across Biscay.

I don't think I mentioned singlehanding specifically! I have yet to find out what is most uncomfortable, trying to keep some semblance of a watch alone or sharing a tiny boat on a long passage with someone I may not like.

I do consider myself to be very inexperienced but I'm not a complete novice. I've done about 2500 miles as crew including the Irish sea in winter and Biscay in a force 7. I'm not looking at this purely through the youtube dream goggles.

If you do continue with your original plan of buying in the EU and bringing the boat back here it would do us all a great service. You would be wise to fess up for the VAT. However the matter of retrospective CE compliance for imported secondhand goods would be bizarre even for even UK civil servants to pursue.

We need a pathfinder here.

.

 

[st599]

If you do continue with your original plan of buying in the EU and bringing the boat back here it would do us all a great service. You would be wise to fess up for the VAT. However the matter of retrospective CE compliance for imported secondhand goods would be bizarre even for even UK civil servants to pursue.

We need a pathfinder here.

.

It's not CE compliance, it's UKCA compliance. The issue is that on import the UK wants boats to meet current UK RCR regs (same as latest RCD but different certification process) so anything older than 2017 has not been assessed against those regs and may fail. (E.g. holding tanks, engine emission limits and boarding tools are all new requirements).