shallow draft.

[pathfinderstu]

hi am looking for advice regarding shallow draft versions of modern awb yachts.
as i am looking around to buy

i understand the benefit regarding loosing a few inches depth . but would like to know if there are any other considerations such as performance etc.

thanks in advance.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Rule of thumb, the deeper the keel, the higher she'll point (until you hit the putty).

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Rule of thumb, the deeper the keel, the higher she'll point (until you hit the putty).

Why is that all these broker databases (not you Jonic) let you select by the length, the number of hulls, the fuel, the number engines, where the cockpit is, etc. but never the draft? If you home harbour has a usefel depth of 4' or whatever it would be nice to pick out the boats that suit.

 

[LadyInBed]

Why is that all these broker databases (not you Jonic) let you select by the length, the number of hulls, the fuel, the number engines, where the cockpit is, etc. but never the draft? If you home harbour has a usefel depth of 4' or whatever it would be nice to pick out the boats that suit.

Maybe they expect that perspective buyers have done some research first.
Maybe buy a copy of the good yacht guides

 

[grumpy_o_g]

Maybe they expect that perspective buyers have done some research first.
Maybe buy a copy of the good yacht guides

Try searching Yachtworld for a 27-32' yacht for say £15,000 to £25,000 in the UK and you get a few hundred returns. Okay, I can work out that a Contessa 32 will have a fair draft but the only way I can know the draft of most Benne's or Jeaneau's is by opening each ad. For many other boats even if I did have a copy of the Observer's Book of Yachts I'd be surprised if they were all in there and, much as I love looking at boats, I'd be more inclined to use a website or broker that didn't expect me to look up a couple of hundred boats in a book - why offer me the option to drill down on other parameters but not one that's often an absolute limiting factor?

 

[Bav34]

We only draw 1.4 m and apart from staying afloat when others ground have never really noticed the difference.

Lots of weight at the bottom helps I guess

 

[Tranona]

I have the 37' version of Bav's boat with 4'6" draft, specifically to be able to go through the French canals. Most times you would not know what the draft was - where it loses is just like Ken says - not so good to windward because the foil is not a good shape. Limits the sail carrying ability a bit, but you often find that such boats have in mast reefing so not designed to squeeze the last bit of speed.

If draft is not a constraint there is no need to have a shallow draft, but it can make a significant difference to access and cruising areas - for example I am in Poole and the 1' less draft opens up more of the harbour to safe navigation.

You need to be aware that shallow draft is achieved in different ways according to the design - can be just a shorter keel or a shorter keel with more ballast lower (as with Bavaria) or lifting keel, sometimes with twin rudders.

 

[Ariadne]

Think about your cruising area and what you intend to do with your boat first.

In the Solent then draft isn't really an issue, but when we were in Aberystwyth it was; drawing 2.2m we only had 2 hours each side of high water, which is pretty **** really. If you are going up and down/exploring tidal rivers then a draft is an issue again, here in the Caribbean a lifting keel would be a serious advantage.

So I suppose in an ideal world a good boat with a lifting keel is the answer, most Brits don't seem to like them (not sure why?) and the racing boys hate them, but for serious cruising the I don't see a better option. You don't tend to beat to often so you either reaching or running, like dinghy sailing on a bigger scale (but much drier!).

I agree that on any brokers website (any published litriture) there should be info on draft, if the boat has a lifting keel and what type of keel it has (long, fin, twin, etc). I'm sure its not that difficult to add a drill down list as an option!! Some of us don't even know what boat we're looking at, let alone its draft and keel configuration.

 

[bluerm166]

shallow draft

If you're going to navigate in typically shallow waters e.g.the east coast,then shallow draft is going to be a great deal friendlier and let you use all the green areas (drying) with relative impunity as with the right boat and the right conditions you can also sit upright on a fair sea bed.In the many creeks and rivers this can more than double the area you can sail in.
Lifting fins have been mentioned and can be highly efficient but bear in mind that if you partially lift the fin because it's shallow then you can't sail with the same efficiency -so it's in the coming and going from moorings/anchorages that it can be particularly useful and extend your sailing time.
Have a look at these relative ratings for performance and start with some boats you know in the length range under consideration:
http://www.byronsoftware.org.uk/bycn/byboat.htm

 

[pathfinderstu]

so it seems the only benefit is to those restricted by draft, in my case will be sailing in e.med so not required, also i dont like the sound of reduced ability to point so high as all my winds seem to be on the nose.!there seems to be a few around in the catagory i was looking for so will cross them off my list.

thanks again for all the help, the experiance i have gained from advice has been invaluable.

 

[fireball]

Rule of thumb, the deeper the keel, the higher she'll point (until you hit the putty).

The shallower the keel the easier it is to get into Northney marina at low tide

But then that'll be the only time I get to "sail" past you !

 

[vyv_cox]

We have the shallow fin version of Sadler 34, currently in the E Med. in our case pointing has never been a major problem, few other boats outpoint us in sheltered waters, mainly because we have extremely good sails. Where we really notice the difference is in the Mediterranean 'square' waves, in which our leeway increases significantly. Looking at our track on the plotter we make 90 degrees and sometimes better when the water is fairly smooth but this can drop to something like 75 degrees on an open water beat. I have read that a shallow draught is an advantage off the wind and there is no doubt that we go very well on a reach.

I can live with this for the advantages it gives us. We can often berth stern to when others are forced to berth bows to due to ballast at the foot of quay walls. We can anchor closer in, often giving us more sheltered positions. Ashore in a cradle we only need a short ladder to climb aboard and cleaning topsides is easier. But our prime reason for buying it was the ability to come through the Canal du Midi, which was most enjoyable.

 

[Twister_Ken]

Not very familiar with E Med, but there's another advantage of reduced draft in some places. It enables you to anchor closer to the shore, or in more sheltered places. Shorter, dryer, dinghy rides.

 

[fireball]

But our prime reason for buying it was the ability to come through the Canal du Midi, which was most enjoyable.

We have a 4'6" draft - same as Tranona - bought after a "test" sail with Bav34 on his shallow draft boat ..
I wanted a shallow draft (or one that could become shallow draft quickly) as it gave us easier access to some nice places around Poole as well as greater range in other places around the Solent.
Ultimate would be for a canal trip down to the med - but that won't be for a few years yet

No, she doesn't sail on rails, her leeway has a lot to answer for - but the advantage (for our budget!) was that we do get greater/easier access ...

If I want to point high and sail fast I've got an RS400 ... but not sure if that'll fit on the davits?!

 

[Tranona]

so it seems the only benefit is to those restricted by draft, in my case will be sailing in e.med so not required, also i dont like the sound of reduced ability to point so high as all my winds seem to be on the nose.!there seems to be a few around in the catagory i was looking for so will cross them off my list.

thanks again for all the help, the experiance i have gained from advice has been invaluable.

Had my boat in the eastern Med (mostly Ionian) for 10 years. Although once you get away from land water depth is not an issue, windward work is only a tiny minority of the time. Despite the fact we use sailing boats, you spend more time motoring or sailing in light airs when good sails and a good motor are far more important than sharp windward performance.

As others have said, many of the harbours and anchorages are shallow, particularly close to quays and a shallow draft (particularly rudder) allows you to use some quaysides safely where deeper rudders can suffer damage. As Quayside living is a major part of Med cruising this is an advantage!

One of the reasons why there are many boats with the shallower keel option is that charter companies prefer them as it keeps the bills for damaged keels and particularly rudders under control. If you go round the storage yards in the winter when the charter boats are out of the water you will see a good selection of chipped rudders and scraped keels, with the odd severe damage when a keel has hit a rock at speed.

Obviously as you go up in size draft with a fixed keel has to increase, but in a sub 40' boat I would be happier with a draft of under 6'.

 

[pathfinderstu]

hhmmm , more interesting points to ponder, am glad i asked now. i dont think depth under the keel would be an issue for me as i tend to go for plenty of water under me when anchoring and mooring but it is a good point.
also leeway i did not think about that but i did wonder if the boats heel more with shorter keels. i understand there would be bigger counter weights but are they matched up to the full keel versions?

and thanks again for your answers.

 

[Seajet]

Most good twin keelers will have suitable ballast, no problem there; they won't go to windward like a fin keeler, but they have the advantages of taking the ground and getting into more places, or other places closer in / earlier in & later out ability.

I wouldn't dream of buying a boat incapable of going through the French Canals; I worked on them a while ago and fully intend to return in my own boat, it's a wonderful experience.

One other factor with shoal draft, when a strong wind or gale has been blowing for a few days 'surface drift' is set up, the whole surface of the sea to roughly 1 metre deep is set flowing in that direction, it's strong enough to allow for in navigation much the same as leeway though not usually as much.

So a deeper keel 'grips' on the relatively static deep water, which makes keels significantly deeper than 1 metre attractive, subject to getting through the canals.

My boat has a lift keel giving 4'6" draft down, 2' draft keel up, but I think too small for the OP at 22'.

There are larger lift keelers, in my view the best larger ones being Ovni's but they're pricey; excellent sailers though !

 

[fireball]

also leeway i did not think about that but i did wonder if the boats heel more with shorter keels. i understand there would be bigger counter weights but are they matched up to the full keel versions?

and thanks again for your answers.

The shorter keel versions tend to have a lump at the bottom to make up the weight ...

*

so heel difference is negligible...

I mentioned a test sail with Bav34 earlier - we did this in a F6 - although not a deliberate move, it turned out it was a good way to test it - most boats are comfortable in lighter winds - but I was after greater stability in stronger winds - and this is largely achieved with hull design as well as keel.
The wide ar5e boats that so many MAB owners despise give a form stability that means the boat stays upright for far longer..

We used to have a 30'er with a 6' keel - but she was slim - so slightest breeze and over she went .. sailed great - but just not at the angle we wanted!


* This photo taken before all the AF was removed and replaced with Coppercoat ...