Setting up a tow line?

[Uricanejack]

Just occurred to me to start a new thread instead of drifting the existing one. How would you actually offer a tow.
I think my insurance says no.

On your boat you encounter a similar size or possibly bigger boat needing a tow.
Would you risk it.
How would you set up to do it.

I have offered a tow. I towed a small commercial herring skiff once.
I spotted him trying to row it. Not making any progress against the wind and tide. So I stopped and offered him a tow.
Under sail cause I felt like showing off.
I just took a line from him and figure 8 on an aft cleat. Light breeze and he bought me a beer after we got into Telegraph Harbor. Easy situation.

Reality. My sail boat is not equipped to tow another boat. In bad weather, life threatening I am not sure I could. Tow a 30 or 40 ft sailboat or motor boat of a lea shore.

GMF 30. folding prop. No tow post. No towing line. I Might have some spinnaker sheets. Rigging a bridle going to take a while. couple of marina warps. eyes out? Old sheet from warp eyes.
Passing a line isn't going to be easy.

I have towed quite a few times. with a tow post and a dedicated tow line. works just fine. use a bridle on the tow. If I really want it to work well use a length of chain.
I have tried to tow with a bridle and a tow line aft of the engine rudder. Frustrating doesn't quite describe it.

 

[Porthandbuoy]

First rule in a life threatening situation is don’t put yourself in danger; call the coastguard.

I carry a long line in case I need a tow. If I was using it to tow someone else I’d run it from the bow cleat (massive) via the winch and aft quarter cleat, to spread the load, through an aft fair lead to the other boat.
My boat has a very narrow stern compared to modern craft so I wouldn’t bother with a bridle.
I would then be pleasantly surprised if my 1GM10 made any headway.

 

[ShinyShoe]

Just occurred to me to start a new thread instead of drifting the existing one. How would you actually offer a tow.
I think my insurance says no.

Does it? Given that the SOLAS reg's require you to assist in a mayday are they saying they wont insure YOU if you do, or they wont insure the other boat?

Reality. My sail boat is not equipped to tow another boat. In bad weather, life threatening I am not sure I could. Tow a 30 or 40 ft sailboat or motor boat of a lea shore.

Does the lee-shore matter to the tow?
Does the life threatening bit matter?
Both require speed I guess but the actual tow is unchanged...?

No towing line. I Might have some spinnaker sheets. Rigging a bridle going to take a while. couple of marina warps. eyes out? Old sheet from warp eyes.
Passing a line isn't going to be easy.

Passing a line - you have a couple of options assuming you can't just come alongside. First would be to come close (say 1 boat length away) parallel to the other boat and from your beam throw a line to the other vessel across its bow. If the rope goes further than the boat that is fine. They will end up with the line across their deck which they can then take hold of and secure. A small fender on the end may help with giving it weight to throw. This does not need to be the actual tow line - it is often easier to throw a lighter line over and then use it to "haul" a heavier line over.

Second option is to get upwind of the boat and drop the line with a fender attached into the water. Allow the wind/tide to drift the fender to the casualty boat who retrieves it and secures. Make sure you keep line taught enough to be away from the prop. (Third option would be to anchor and veer down - i.e. release more anchor rode to drift yourself back towards the casualty... depends on depth, conditions, the casualty's movements etc how practical that may be.)

Bridle - perhaps I'm missing something - but would you not simply take a heavy line (anchor warp maybe?) and connect it to two very strong points on either side of the boat (winches or cleats) with enough line that when it is pulled tight it forms a V shape with the apex of the V behind the boat but not able to reach the prop?

Bridle - could however be rigged once you've got the boat away from the rocks etc...

 

[prv]

I have a very long line coiled down under one of the stern-cabin bunks. It could be a long shoreline, an extension to the main or kedge warp in very deep water, or a tow-line for someone to tow me or me to tow someone else.

If I was rigging it to tow someone else, I'd secure a mooring warp to one bow cleat, take a turn around one midships cleat, a turn around one stern cleat, pass it through the hard eye in the end of the tow line, take a turn around the other stern cleat, around the other midships cleat, and make fast on the other bow cleat. The bight of mooring warp across the stern would be kept quite short, and the hard eye in the towline is stainless instead of the galvanised I had on hand, in the hope that it will be slippery enough to slide across the mooring warp from one side to the other. I don't know how well that would work in practice under load, but it's the best I can do to help the stern be able to move for steering, without buying an expensive high-load block for something that may never happen. There isn't really any way to secure the line further forward and let the stern swing under it like a tug.

My insurance covers towing in an emergency.

When in a small motorboat, I've towed a larger motorboat that had run out of fuel and waved us down. The astern-tow part was ok, but when we switched to alongside tow to try to put him alongside a pontoon, manoeuvering was extremely difficult as he had a grip in the water and we didn't, so we tended to just rotate him instead of propelling us both forward. But we got him alongside and he gratefully handed us all the cash he happened to have with him .

In a yacht with gear failure, I've accepted a tow from another yacht that held us off a lee shore until a more capable vessel arrived.

EDIT: Your herring skiff reminds me that we towed a chap who was failing to row back to his yacht and being flushed out of the river by the tide. But I suppose towing a tender doesn't really count and obviously we didn't break out the big tow-line.

A couple of years ago in the Channel Islands we came across a large (45'+) motor-yacht that had had both gearboxes break down and seemed to have a very poor radio installation such that he couldn't raise the Coastguard from less than ten miles out. Had he been drifting into danger I'd have attempted to at least slow him down, using the rig described above, but towing him all the way home wasn't really sensible. We acted as a radio relay and a powerful Nelson-style boat came out from Sark to salvage him.

Pete

 

[pcatterall]

Always interested me.....just how is the load 'spread' if I take just one turn around a cleat then 90% of any load ( just a guess!) is taken on that cleat. Can you run a line through the cleat 'legs' to make a figure of eight which may take some load? ( chaff?) If I take a turn around a winch then possibly 50% ? so possibly if being towed then a turn around the anchor winch then cleated off may work and if towing then a turn around the sheet winch and cleated off may work?

 

[Neeves]

Use the 2 aft sheet winches, cobble together a bridle, from spare sheets (from each winch), use the nylon you use for your spare rode or those shore lines as the tow rope.

Forget insurance - if lives are in danger or the yacht will be wrecked - you will be condemned if you walk away and it was possible (but keep a knife handy and don't risk lives on your yacht or the safety of your yacht).

I don't understand why its so difficult.

Jonathan

 

[prv]

Always interested me.....just how is the load 'spread' if I take just one turn around a cleat then 90% of any load ( just a guess!) is taken on that cleat.

I'm not sure I'd put the figure at 90%, but this is all just intuition really rather than any figures. Though I am surprised that you see a turn on the winch as transferring much less load than a turn around a cleat - maybe it depends on the cleat design, and I'm thinking of my mooring cleats which are polished stainless and have quite tall rounded legs whereas you're imagining a flatter design that tends to jam the rope more?

Inevitably the largest single load will be on the aft cleats, but the fact is that I have no deck fittings that are obviously stronger than the mooring cleats. They're bolted through the doubled thickness of the hull/deck joint, and have larger diameter bolts than anything else including the sheet winches. As UricaneJack is suggesting, a relatively lightweight 34' yacht just isn't really built for towing.

Pete

 

[GHA]

Only did it once "for real". Buddy boating across the pond from Cape Verde to Natal in Brasil, SA boat - big ketch & me solo on a 33' steel with undersized and grumpy 20Hp Bukh. He lost his engine early on, happens a lot, so fine even through the ITCZ then after Fernando De Naronha not too far from a cold beer the wind died again so he got some lines ready, I passed 2 dock lines tied together from a stern cleat and we motored the rest of the day. Not a load of fun with the LX autopilot broke (again) and no wind for the aries so stuck on the tiller in the tropical sun all day. River entrance on the ebb so bit exciting trying to tow a 20t boat full revs with the genny out to catch what little wind there was at the coast. Technically simple enough - just make sure the lines have some stretch in them. Doubt if either of us were insured.

 

[johnalison]

I doubt if my 27hp would put so much stress on the fixings that great trouble would be needed when setting up a tow. I have a 50m nylon line which gets occasional use as a shore line ready to hand. I think that I would just attach to an aft cleat, following the sort of precautions mentioned. HR cleats are pretty strong, but I could take a loop round a winch if I were worried. Give then need to act quickly in some situations, I would probably do what was simpest, but don a lifejacket first.

 

[Kukri]

Pass a heaving line first. Always use nylon for a tow line, and the longer the better. The problem is the snatch load not the steady load. The snatch load will pull almost any cleat out. Keep in mind that if you secure the tow rope aft you won’t be able to manoeuvre - that’s why pre-“water tractor” tugs have the towing hook so far forward. On a modern sailing boat, if you take a bridle to the two primary winches you may manage some control

 

[lw395]

I've towed a few boats and been towed.
The main thing is, use a stretchy line.
As long as possible.
If the lines are stretchy enough, the average for is not huge, your mooring cleats should be fine.

I've seen someone tow a small racing keelboat using a spectra rope. The first ripple of wash they crossed, the cleat exploded off the deck.

If there are any waves to think about, I would use a very long warp, I think there's still a 220m roll of lorry rope under a bunk.
I don't believe in running the rope around various fittings, if it pulls the aft cleat out, so be it. I don't want anything breaking and whiplashing across the cockpit.

 

[pcatterall]

I'm not sure I'd put the figure at 90%, but this is all just intuition really rather than any figures. Though I am surprised that you see a turn on the winch as transferring much less load than a turn around a cleat - maybe it depends on the cleat design, and I'm thinking of my mooring cleats which are polished stainless and have quite tall rounded legs whereas you're imagining a flatter design that tends to jam the rope more?

Inevitably the largest single load will be on the aft cleats, but the fact is that I have no deck fittings that are obviously stronger than the mooring cleats. They're bolted through the doubled thickness of the hull/deck joint, and have larger diameter bolts than anything else including the sheet winches. As UricaneJack is suggesting, a relatively lightweight 34' yacht just isn't really built for towing.

Pete

I guess that the guess comes from my experience in holding loads by hand when just a 180 degree 'turn' round a fitting allows me to hold high loads with just my fingers and when using a complete 360 degree turn I have to feed slack to let a heavy load go.
With winch I find I need a full 360 turn equates to the 180 degree turn on a cleat.
On a long duration tow It seems that if you introduce friction you risk chaff.
I do carry a 50m nylon line for emergency towing etc.

 

[Uricanejack]

Does it? Given that the SOLAS reg's require you to assist in a mayday are they saying they wont insure YOU if you do, or they wont insure the other boat?


Does the lee-shore matter to the tow?
Does the life threatening bit matter?
Both require speed I guess but the actual tow is unchanged...?


Passing a line - you have a couple of options assuming you can't just come alongside. First would be to come close (say 1 boat length away) parallel to the other boat and from your beam throw a line to the other vessel across its bow. If the rope goes further than the boat that is fine. They will end up with the line across their deck which they can then take hold of and secure. A small fender on the end may help with giving it weight to throw. This does not need to be the actual tow line - it is often easier to throw a lighter line over and then use it to "haul" a heavier line over.

Second option is to get upwind of the boat and drop the line with a fender attached into the water. Allow the wind/tide to drift the fender to the casualty boat who retrieves it and secures. Make sure you keep line taught enough to be away from the prop. (Third option would be to anchor and veer down - i.e. release more anchor rode to drift yourself back towards the casualty... depends on depth, conditions, the casualty's movements etc how practical that may be.)

Bridle - perhaps I'm missing something - but would you not simply take a heavy line (anchor warp maybe?) and connect it to two very strong points on either side of the boat (winches or cleats) with enough line that when it is pulled tight it forms a V shape with the apex of the V behind the boat but not able to reach the prop?

Bridle - could however be rigged once you've got the boat away from the rocks etc...

It does say no towing. I don't have the papers in front of me. I believe the restriction would not include emergencies. Just don't want me towing a mates boat from dock to dock. Even so I have offered a helping hand in the past without worrying about it. Possibly unwisely. There is a difference between an emergency and a routine situation. My insurance doesn't appear to want me to make it a routine.
SOLAS doesn't require a vessel to tow it requires a vessel to do the best it can to save life. without endangering its self. I wasn't really contemplating this question though. Just the practicality of how to go about it. On a boat like mine.

As for the lee shore. I was just contemplating adverse conditions as opposed to relatively benign conditions in which I have towed another boat. With my sail boat.
Which in my opinion, just doesn't work very well as a towing vessel. Setting up the tow. In less than ideal conditions. would be quite difficult. Particularly since I don't have anything set up ahead of time. I do have a kedge anchor on a long line. which might do. stowed inconveniently under my anchor. Sheets are in my cockpit locker quite ready.

My though the bridle would spread the load to both aft cleats rather than just one. Coming close to pass a line in calm conditions no big deal. A bit rough it would become quite difficult.

Passing the line down with a fender is a good idea.

 

[penberth3]

Does it? Given that the SOLAS reg's require you to assist in a mayday are they saying they wont insure YOU if you do, or they wont insure the other boat?

Assisting to save life in a mayday doesn't mean you have to tow another boat.

 

[thinwater]

I've pulled people and pulled people off bars.

a. If the rope is appropriate size, at least 150 feet long, and your cleats and winches are well installed, you can't overload them. The engine isn't that strong and the line will absorb shocks. That said, midships cleats are good. Getting towed by a power boat is a very different case--they can overload your fittings.

b. You need a bridle. This is NOT to spread the load, it is so that you can steer. Remember how you set a drogue to one side to make the boat turn? Anchor the tow to one cleat and you will go in circles, particularly until the rudder gets a good bite. You won't be able to pull someone off a bar, because your boat will go sideways (no rudder at zero knots). In fact, the bridle should be adjustable, to balance the steering for the course you need.

Be realistic. You don't have much power. It's not a dangerous thing to try in open water, but be VERY careful around bars etc.; you can be pulled into trouble. That happened to me once, because the person I was pulling threw the rope in my prop after I got him off. Educational and fortunately harmless (not the boat in my avitar).

 

[William_H]

Just a few comments re towing. I have operated our club rescue boat a bit and while we use the bridle from 2 stern cleats this is not the best. The problem is that connected to the stern a load will tend to pull the stern towards the load. So turning can really difficult. The answer as you see on tug boats is to pull from near the centre of the towing boat. Using a sail boat as a tug boat you might do better towing from,a bridle from the 2 jib sheet winches.
While nylon or polypropylene rope is best because it floats and has lots of stretch capability most of us have to use what we carry. ie jib or spin sheets. Polyester sinks and has min stretch so not best.
One friend was being towed home in no wind conditions by another friend. Towing boat used a spin sheet. 10mm about 20 m long. When they got to the marina towing boat said OK let go. The crew on the bow could not get the tow rope off the cleat so in a rush the towing boat let go the rope. Crew on towed boat bow finding no load could then let go the line. Result the expensive spin sheet went straight to the bottom. Watch for that trap.
I have towed 3 x 24fters behind my 21fter with 6HP Johnson. No wind no problem about 4 knots. I have been first in a string of 4 behind a more powerful rescue boat. Using polyester rope again the jerk loads were horrible. I really thought the cleats were coming out. Both bow and stern.
With our rescue boat outboard powered I teach a procedure where a boat is aground in shallows of going in bow first. Throw a tow rope to the stranded boat from the bow. The tow rope is connected at the stern but is passed around the outside of the boat and is wrapped around the bow anchor cleat. You pull in reverse hopefully getting the stranded boat off. You get out into clear water then untie rope from the bow cleat and rotate the tow boat so that you can tow in the normal way. This method keeps the rescue boat prop clear of the bottom and also gives more control in pulling.
When pulling sail boats off the mud it is essential that you get the boat to heel so lifting the fin keel up to clear the mud. (we don't get bilge keelers here) If a bigger boat has an engine rescue boat can often get a heel by taking a halyard to pull and so towing the boat (top of the mast first) sideways. Takes a bit of courage to do this. As always the skipper of the towed boat makes the decision re which direction to tow and how it is to be done. (direction can be critical in a grounding.) If in doubt pull him out the way he went in. Might need to rotate the stranded boat or pull him out backwards.
olewill Just waffling on!

 

[Stemar]

I've towed alongside in harbour, but I'd go for a good long line in any waves. I reckon that, with 28HP in a 24ft boat, I'm in with a chance for anything up to 40ft unless conditions are really bad. I have a good lump of octoplait that I'd use as it's quite elastic, with a bridle from the samson post forward, a turn around each genny winch and tucked inside the aft cleats to keep the line out of the cockpit. I rather think a fender attached to the end of the bridle might help keep the prop from getting involved should things become a bit fraught.

I know I'd have less control than if the bridle were free to pivot further forward, but I don't want it able to get at me or my crew in the cockpit. I'd try to get myself pointing in the right direction before allowing the line to become taut. The boat may not turn with a tight tow line, but a good propwash over the rudder should move me sideways until I am pointing in the right direction.

All good theory, as I've never had to do it in practice, but I reckon it's worth thinking about in advance - and discussing so any flaws are discovered in advance.

The one time I did pull someone off the mud was while at anchor. A small mobo had gone aground and, on the rising tide, with a geed breeze in the same direction, it was simply being carried up the beach each time it moved. I got a line to them with the dinghy, but couldn't pull them off with it, so I strung together just about every bit of string in my rope locker to get the end back on board and used a genny winch to heave them off. Worked a treat.

 

[Neil_Y]

If you have time and it's going to be a long tow put a chain in the tow rope set up. A heavy weight helps reduce the snatch.

I also think it's wrong to think you can't do damage by pulling when you only have a small engine, you have the combined mass and enertia that will easily rip cleats out.

 

[Stemar]

If you have time and it's going to be a long tow put a chain in the tow rope set up. A heavy weight helps reduce the snatch.

I also think it's wrong to think you can't do damage by pulling when you only have a small engine, you have the combined mass and enertia that will easily rip cleats out.

It's the snatch loading that does the damage, just the same as when towing a car, but at least in a car, once you've got tension on the line, you're OK until you come to the next set of traffic lights. You can get a good snatch just from getting the boats out of synch with the waves. I wouldn't trust my cleats for towing anything bigger than a light dinghy.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Just a few comments re towing. I have operated our club rescue boat a bit and while we use the bridle from 2 stern cleats this is not the best. The problem is that connected to the stern a load will tend to pull the stern towards the load. So turning can really difficult. The answer as you see on tug boats is to pull from near the centre of the towing boat. Using a sail boat as a tug boat you might do better towing from,a bridle from the 2 jib sheet winches.

Indeed. I've towed from a rigid dinghy a few times, and the trick there is to tie the towrope round the centre thwart. This assumes that the towed vessel can't steer; if it can then the tow can be taken from aft, but in that case the towed vessel is mainly responsible for steering both.