Sept Yachting Monthly

Re: Hmmm...

Reminds me of a comment from a few years ago in one of the sailing mags, Denny Desoutter I think. Someone had said to him that a hundred years ago, most of us would have had a paid hand to handle the boat. "No", he replied "most of us would have been paid hands".

We all have more money, on average, than our parents had so being able to afford a bigger boat is a natural consequence, and although I'm happy with my route here, I wouldn't criticise someone for buying the biggest boat they could afford. Its what I did. Unless they clout me on the way into their marina berth or swamp me with their excessive wake...
 
Dave ........... too true !

We all aspire - save some - to the biggest boat we can afford ... some to biggest boat they cannot afford even !!

Evolution ....
 
Re: Dave ........... too true !

<<<<<We all aspire - save some - to the biggest boat we can afford ... some to biggest boat they cannot afford even !!

Evolution ....>>.

Evolution???? Yep, my second boat, and beside3s the poxy engine, an absolute stoater of a cruiser. It went like , well very well, ordure off the chromium garden tool, and had an acre of room.
Highly recommended except for the dodgy Brown/Beige/Orange late 70s colour scheme.
 
i think that boat manufacturers(I hesitate to call them boatbuilders)promote larger boats as the smaller ones require disproportianate labour costs hence lower profit margins.
 
Re:Ho Hum...

I suppose it's good that builders are still trying to build entry level cruisers. Even if entry level isn't what it was.

I sail a boat 5ft shorter than either of these. I do it from choice but then I'm a bit old fashioned. I don't worry to much about hot water, wheel steering or nav stations. I don't look particularly for the ultimate in windward performance or seakeeping. In fact I have quite simple needs. My boat must be well built, reasonably comfortable and with fair performance. The only other criteria I have is that it must be bought free and clear for cash money. Preferably without it's purchase price and running costs reducing my ability to do anything else that I fancy.

So am I just tight or do I lack commitment?
 
Re: Ooh my back

No - although we owned one for 3 years (a great boat!), the nearest I got to sleeping on board was nodding off in the cockpit in the dinghy park on a hot day, whilst supposedly fettling something or other.
 
About 35ft best for first boat.

But which is the 'easier' to sail from the Solent to Cherbourg - esp if the breeze gets up a bit; nice little starter kit of 23ft, say, or a comfortable 35ft-er ? The nav will be more or less the same for each.

It is only in 'starting' and 'landing' that the size of a smaller boat is an advantage, sez I; the larger boat will be easier all round to sail, as long as you are not talking about something so big that things are physically more difficult.

Starting and landing seem pretty much as hazardous in the one as the other; once mastered it is the behaviour of the boat at sea that determines which is 'best' as a starter boat, and I would argue firmly for the 35-ft'er.
 
Re: About 35ft best for first boat.

Fair enough if the conditions remain steady state, but what about the wind whipping up? A smaller boat will be much easier to reef and control than a 35 footer and will force you into good habits early.

I also detect a reluctance to set out at all for novices on larger boats due to a lack of confidence in 'starting' and perhaps 'landing' also.

So I'll argue for a 27 footer where a judicial boot will prevent embarassment when coming alongside, unlike the 35 which might cause damage or injury
 
Re: About 35ft best for first boat.

Your semantics could well be right m'learned friend! Sitting in W Cowes and wondering if recharging my glass would awaken the family I have dutifully embarked for the weekend. Ho hum...
 
Re: About 35ft best for first boat.

Seems to me that to talk of 25ft as "entry level" is to live in the past. But then most of us do that - we define things in terms of our own experience. We sailed a 25footer , should be good enough for anyone else.

But working people today are far wealthier. Lots can easily afford the cost of starting with a new 30 footer or bigger. And many wives will not tolerate the sort of camping that is involved in, for example, an Achilles 24. Why should they if they dont have to?

Same thing is happening elsewhere in life. With cars for example, where many more people are driving bigger newer cars with large engines. Same with motorbikes that someone mentioned. How many are now below 600cc?

Changing subject it would be interesting to know who pulled out of the test. Could it be that other makers didnt want to see their boay being compared with downmarket brands? And maybe even losing?

tell JJ, tell!
 
This post seems to have concentrated on teh definition of 'starter boat' and whether YM has been assiduous enough it pursuing the needs to those who sail this type.

The question of what makes a starter boat is always a tricky one. Nobody would really call an Oyster 45 a starter boat but owners do include first time buyers.

This is exceptional but the fact of the matter is that people are starting out at a higher level than ever before. With modern sail handling aids, GPS, improved foul weather gear, better autopilots, radar widely available for small cruising boats etc, going to sea in a 30ft boat is probably easier than doing so in a 1960s Centaur with log and compass plus, if you were rich, an RDF set. And a Centaur would be at least as difficult to handle in a marina compared to a modern 30ft cruiser, while a Folkboat, Vertue or Macwester would be a lot less handy.

Both Bavaria and Legend regard their 31 and 30 models as boats for first time buyers because that is the sort of person who is buying them. It is not unreasonable for YM to take the same view.

The fact that a a person buys a 30 footer as his first boat does not mean he has no sailing experience. He may have done a day skipper course, or a bit of chartering, or sailed with Mum and Dad for years, or grown up in dinghies and kayaks, but this is his entry level cruiser.

If anyone asks me how to get into sailing I emphatically recommend starting young and in dinghies, moving on to other craft as skill, experience, interest and domestic requirments dictate.

We should not make the mistake of believing we live in the fifties or sixties. Times change, people sail more with their families, family yacht design has improved, boats are comparatively cheaper, expectations and minimum requirement levels have risen.

Yet despite all that, many, many people obviously start small(er). YM absolutely recognises this and all the recent editors of the magazine have written editorials extoling the virtues of small and/or cheap. and/or secondhand boats.

In recent issues you may remember not just the Bavaria/Legend head-to-head, but also: Buying a boat on Ebay for £1,300, Transatlantic in a Home Built Boat, Small Boats, Big Fun (about 12 small weekend and day cruising boats), Less Boat More Fun (about a Foxhound 27) Used Boat Tests (Westerly Centaur and, in the next issue, Kingfisher 30), Survey! Survey! Survey (boats include three under £30,000 ), Downsize to Keep on Cruising, and so on. And that's just in the last five issues.

The On Board section has to reflect the new boat market which has tended, in recent years, to have seen most activity in the 38ft plus sector. However, we have tried to feature smaller boats whenever they have appeared.

The vast majority of other articles in YM cover subjects which are applicable to yachts of all sizes and the rest are chosen to be of interest, we hope, to all yachtsmen. Clearly, YM would be a remarkable magazine, indeed, if all its content was of deep interest to all who voyage under sail, and so in each issue there will be articles which may be of less interest to a particular individual. Also, I am sure you will consider it reasonable that, in a field which is serviced by at least four titles, each is bound to have its own particular speciality. YM has new, inexperienced and under funded yachtsmen very much at its heart. But PBO is, inevitably, where you will find more of the really small and cheap boats. We are grown-up enough to accept that, for some boat owners, PBO is a more appropriate magazine. Many of those gravitate to YM as time goes by.
 
James

My orginal post was placed a little tongue in cheek. However it did spark off quite a busy thread! It has to be said that your last comments are very true, YM does cover 'the lot'.

So, go on, I wont tell anyone, what were the other 30 footers? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Re: Ooh my back

Sleeping in a Wayfarer? Oooh, luxury... In my day, I slept in a Mirror!

Well, I did, actually - at 5'6 it was just possible to slip under the thwart and sleep under the sail!

Cheers
Patrick
 
Re: Ooh my back

[ QUOTE ]
Sleeping in a Wayfarer? Oooh, luxury... In my day, I slept in a Mirror!

Well, I did, actually - at 5'6 it was just possible to slip under the thwart and sleep under the sail!

Cheers
Patrick

[/ QUOTE ]

well i can beat that
4 of us slept in our 8 ft tender ( one foggy night ) /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
 
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