Separate levers

[rule the waves]

I've noticed that, on older power boats and some cruisers, the throttle and gear levers are often seperated. The newer generation doesn't seem to follow this, except for the extreme power boats. My question: is there a claer advantage to seperate throttle/gear levers ? I personally don't seem to find an obvious one. If I were to use this system, in difficult situations it would most likely confuse me and cause accidents...

 

[MikeJ42]

I've noticed that, on older power boats and some cruisers, the throttle and gear levers are often seperated. The newer generation doesn't seem to follow this, except for the extreme power boats. My question: is there a claer advantage to seperate throttle/gear levers ? I personally don't seem to find an obvious one. If I were to use this system, in difficult situations it would most likely confuse me and cause accidents...

I think it tends to be US boats that favour the seperate throttles. They still do in the their home market.

For a cruiser, I cannot see any advantage at all in having split throttles/gears.

 

[cataldo]

I agree ,we had a Sealine328 about Ten years ago with
this arrangement and found it muddling when manouevering
at close quarters..

 

[rule the waves]

I think it tends to be US boats that favour the seperate throttles. They still do in the their home market.

For a cruiser, I cannot see any advantage at all in having split throttles/gears.

Well, in the december edition of MBM, I specifically noticed this again on the Sunseeker. Long time ago, I considered buying a similar Tomahawk. This arrangement actully scared me off.

 

[gjgm]

I've noticed that, on older power boats and some cruisers, the throttle and gear levers are often seperated. The newer generation doesn't seem to follow this, except for the extreme power boats. My question: is there a claer advantage to seperate throttle/gear levers ? I personally don't seem to find an obvious one. If I were to use this system, in difficult situations it would most likely confuse me and cause accidents...

I believe the reason is that on a single lever, you have approx 50pct forward,50pct reverse, which limits the degreee of control you have especially in forward gear where you presumably most need it.
By using two levers, you have the whole lever movement available as the gear change is on the other lever. Ie 45 degrees travel against 180 degress travel of the lever. That then gives double the sensitivity of control, if that is the right word.

 

[rule the waves]

I believe the reason is that on a single lever, you have approx 50pct forward,50pct reverse, which limits the degreee of control you have especially in forward gear where you presumably most need it.
By using two levers, you have the whole lever movement available as the gear change is on the other lever. Ie 45 degrees travel against 180 degress travel of the lever. That then gives double the sensitivity of control, if that is the right word.

Well, I never looked at it this way ! For some applications, like powerboating in heavy seas, this might indeed be an advantage, as most of us may have experienced at some time while pounding along, trying to adjust the speed to the waves...

 

[scottie]

If you can manoeuvre on gear only with throttle at idle it is actually a less jumpy method and is actually simpler when you are used to it

Biggest advantage is in doing away with ds units therefore can make for a technically better mechanical control system especially in long cable runs and triple station set ups

I would think that some of the fishing boats with towers would suffer from a pendulum effect that would be exaggerated with single lever controls

The argument becomes more down to tradition with electronic controls

 

[Latestarter1]

Agree with the positive comments, Morse Twin S is what I have been used to, far less jerky in confined spaces.

My own boat is un-guided missile in the marina, converted to Twin S. Now just a little less jerky unguided missile.

I would not have a Grand Banks without them.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Some people say you get finer control of the throttles with a twin lever set up but IMHO thats outweighed by the potential for confusion, as you say. I once chartered a trawler yacht in the Carib which had a twin lever set up and I must say that I didn't like it, even after 2 weeks. IMHO twin levers are old technology from the days before slick single lever set ups came on the market. Today's electronic and manual single lever systems are so good that I dont see any reason for a twin lever set up.

 

[LittleShip]

I would not have a Grand Banks without them.

Latestarter.... I knew somewhere down the lines you would find a good point about my old tub.

Deleted User Today's electronic (are **** IMHO)and manual single lever systems are so good.

I have played on a Prestige 36 with electronic controls and found them dreadful, waiting for the bleep to say it's in or out of gear and all the faffing about to change control from one helm to the other. I have to say that the twin control on LS took some getting use to. Now it's just like driving the pedals on a car which confuses everybody to start with.

Given the option I would like the single control but it just isnt worth the effort in changing now I'm use to the twin contols.

To each his own.

Tom

 

[MapisM]

Mmmm... there are also other detailed reasons for each of these choices.
My personal preference is for separate levers, coupled by engine rather than by gear/throttle, unless on fast boats requiring real driving (leaving pedal throttle aside, which is in another league), where throttles MUST be coupled.

But the truth is, it's mainly a matter of what you get used to.
Pretty much an "each to their own" thing, methink.
In fact, there are boaters who even love joysticks, go figure...!
...I'll get my coat...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Deleted User Today's electronic (are **** IMHO)and manual single lever systems are so good.

I have played on a Prestige 36 with electronic controls and found them dreadful, waiting for the bleep to say it's in or out of gear and all the faffing about to change control from one helm to the other. I have to say that the twin control on LS took some getting use to. Now it's just like driving the pedals on a car which confuses everybody to start with.

Given the option I would like the single control but it just isnt worth the effort in changing now I'm use to the twin contols.

To each his own.

Tom

As you say each to his own but I find the Microcommander electronic controls that I've had on my last 2 boats to be very good with just enough resistance to make them feel like very slick manual controls. Yeah the beeping is a pain but its there for a reason

 

[Renegade_Master]

On my previous boat, SunCoast school boat a Sealine F36 I had manuel single lever morse controls.
When I bought the Princess 560 I new she had seperate gear and throttle controls,(unusual for the mark) and was somewhat apprehensive. The seller assured me he had no problem using them and in fact preferred them.

I have to say that on a few occasions Phil has used the 560 to teach on. Now Phil teaches to use tickover revs when mooring etc, he dislikes unneccessary use of revs whilst manouvering. He did say that the seperate gear levers discouraged the use of revs, which in most cases are not needed anyway. I have to say that with the grip of the large props on the Princess I dont have to refer to revs.

That said there are odd extreme cases where the wind is so striong that a blip of the throttle becomes necessary, however what I generally do on those occasions is slip into neutral on approach raise the revs slightly, she will still go in and out of gear but with increased purchase on the water.

One final thing is that a) the two gear levers are on port side of the fly helm and the throttles are a fair distance away to starboard. b) if you are reversing/turning with the port throttle engaged in reverse, you would have to reach over and push the port throttle "forward"to get more revs, which does tend to confuse, hence why I just put the revs up slightly on each engine first.

 

[boatmaster]

I believe that older design combined levers were prone to apply a few revs before the gear mechanism had fully engaged and could cause additional wear on gearboxes. I had a workboat years ago with an outboard on it with a morse control single lever. the gears always ground when going into gear, I changed it for independent levers and this cured the problem instantly.
However, only any good if you ensure gear changes always done on tick over.
Not saying thats the reason America goes for independent control but do believe it makes a difference. Blimey it can be confusing though and I reckon could be the reason for some of the scrapes we all hear about.

 

[Doghousekeeper]

"One set of levers or two?"

How about three?

Drove a boat with variable pitch props recently. Three controls:
One set of handles for revs.
One set for the gearbox (fwd and neutral only, of course, no reverse).
One set to change the pitch of the prop.

I have to say - once I got used to it, I was sold on it. Really good control, and the power came in and out like driving with jets ... but a scary sight when I first took the wheel, and wondered how I could grow another pair of arms!

 

[rule the waves]

Well - I guess, at first sight, your 3-lever arrangement was just as confusing as a FOMULA 1 steering wheel would be to any of us when grabbing it for a first time...bur isn't "the edge" always more exciting ?

 

[boatmaster]

Well - I guess, at first sight, your 3-lever arrangement was just as confusing as a FOMULA 1 steering wheel would be to any of us when grabbing it for a first time...bur isn't "the edge" always more exciting ?

I should think thats quite difficult and requires practice

 

[Latestarter1]

On my previous boat, SunCoast school boat a Sealine F36 I had manuel single lever morse controls.
When I bought the Princess 560 I new she had seperate gear and throttle controls,(unusual for the mark) and was somewhat apprehensive. The seller assured me he had no problem using them and in fact preferred them.

I have to say that on a few occasions Phil has used the 560 to teach on. Now Phil teaches to use tickover revs when mooring etc, he dislikes unneccessary use of revs whilst manouvering. He did say that the seperate gear levers discouraged the use of revs, which in most cases are not needed anyway. I have to say that with the grip of the large props on the Princess I dont have to refer to revs.

That said there are odd extreme cases where the wind is so striong that a blip of the throttle becomes necessary, however what I generally do on those occasions is slip into neutral on approach raise the revs slightly, she will still go in and out of gear but with increased purchase on the water.

One final thing is that a) the two gear levers are on port side of the fly helm and the throttles are a fair distance away to starboard. b) if you are reversing/turning with the port throttle engaged in reverse, you would have to reach over and push the port throttle "forward"to get more revs, which does tend to confuse, hence why I just put the revs up slightly on each engine first.

Ferzacly!!!!!!!!

Violently agree with your whole post, skippers learn control without excessive use of engine power. The old single lever Morse MT series are generally set up to give a degree of throttle progression as soon as gear is engaged, combined with slightly stiff and jerky contol.

As to Deleted User and his ZF Mathers Mirco Commanders, not strictly apples for apples as the Mathers set up is plain lush! Single lever with none of the mechanical drawbacks, light and very progressive lever movement. Only one thing better ZF Mathers with Supershift, selectable low idle as well as telling box to dump pressure trolling valve style when it is told a shift is coming. Works superbly.

 

[Piers]

Found separate levers strange whenwe took delivery of our Fleming 55, but very soon became used to them. They are so simple to use and brilliant for close quarters manoeuvring. Wouldn't go back to combined levers.

 

[rule the waves]

Found separate levers strange whenwe took delivery of our Fleming 55, but very soon became used to them. They are so simple to use and brilliant for close quarters manoeuvring. Wouldn't go back to combined levers.

Could you please explain a little bit further ? I mean, I don't necessarily disagree but my "feeling" tells me that, in difficult situations, quicke changing of the forward-backward gear whilst not applying thrust in any direction could make you lose precious time...