Selling boat - survey and repairing deficiencies

[Rafiki]

I will throw my comments into the ring based on buying and selling two years ago;

1) when selling try and remove as much "stuff" as possible for the photo's. Really the boat will look so much better if the open shelves and berths are clear of bags, coats, sailbags, food cans etc etc. Some photo's I see actually detract from the value of the boat
2) Only list equipment which works ! There is no point in including in the inventory, say the Radar, if it doesn't work. If you do include it the potential buyer will only knock you down when the survey shows it's broken and the buyer will wonder what else doesn't work
3) As someone else has commented boats cost a lot just standing in the yard, this means that the lowest valued boat isn't worth zero it's a negative figure. In other words you pay me £2,000 and I will save you the cost of the storage fees, insurance, etc

 

[duncan99210]

I’ve rejected a boat based on a survey which found the gas system to be leaking and the outdrive needed new bellows. Seller refused an adjustment or fix, so I walked. Took him another six months to sell for work that might have cost £350.
Last boat I bought, surveyor identified faults that needed fixing, seller had the work done to my satisfaction, boat sold.

 

[roblpm]

From what I've seen, the attempts to negotiate the price downward after survey are rarely for 'no reason'.
Defects will be found.
Some trivial.
Some the buyer should have noticed himself.
Some scary sometimes.

Sometimes it pays to get the defects sorted.
Sometimes it's worth the vendor getting quotes or estimates to get the work done.
Soemtimes it's worth getting an expert to look into what the surveyor has questioned. Whether that's a rigger or an electrician or a grp worker or an expert on the make of boat.
Sometimes you need to stand firm and say you won't reduce more than 'x'.

With reference to another thread, I think selling in the spring attracts dreamers. Before you know it, the season is half gone.
Serious buyers are usually looking at boats by early autumn, because they know you usually need to have done the deal by xmas to get the boat sorted and in the water by April.
Boats can be sold quickly, but usually the booking a survey, waiting for the report, sorting the fallout cycle kills a month or more.

Thanks. Good advice. I think autumn will be the time!

 

[Neil_Y]

What make type of boat is she?

 

[philwebb]

I wonder what the forum thinks about my dilemma. I had a survey this year for insurance purposes and the report which came back was on the harsh end of the spectrum. Some of the findings I agree with and am in the process of fixing. One or two of the findings I do not agree with and are frankly uneconomic to carry out.
My problem is I want to sell the boat and the people who I engaged to sell the boat insist on me disclosing the survey to potential buyers. If I thought it was fair, I would, but since it is so harsh I feel that showing it would be shooting myself in the foot.

 

[Graham376]

I think any known problems should be disclosed. Potential buyers can make up their own minds whether they agree with the survey or not.

 

[thinwater]

I wonder what the forum thinks about my dilemma. I had a survey this year for insurance purposes and the report which came back was on the harsh end of the spectrum. Some of the findings I agree with and am in the process of fixing. One or two of the findings I do not agree with and are frankly uneconomic to carry out.
My problem is I want to sell the boat and the people who I engaged to sell the boat insist on me disclosing the survey to potential buyers. If I thought it was fair, I would, but since it is so harsh I feel that showing it would be shooting myself in the foot.

Just remember that you are legally bound to disclose what you know. The facts of the survey (correcting what has been repaired, of course), but not necessarily the opinions.

 

[Heckler]

Just remember that you are legally bound to disclose what you know. The facts of the survey (correcting what has been repaired, of course), but not necessarily the opinions.

What if the survey was like mine? Said the engine was a 3 cylinder MD2030, it isnt its a 4 cylinder MD22. Said the B&G instrument system was shot, it wasnt, just some loose connections and they still work 9 years later. Said the gearbox was shot with burned clutches, it wasnt and there are no clutches such as he intimated, it had hypoid gear oil in that smells that peculiar smell. I changed it to the recommended and its been fine for the last nine years. And so it went on. I felt sorry for the vendor. Well not really!

 

[roblpm]

What make type of boat is she?

Parker 275

 

[roblpm]

Just remember that you are legally bound to disclose what you know. The facts of the survey (correcting what has been repaired, of course), but not necessarily the opinions.

Sure. I will disclose. But its a 1991 boat. So it is in good condition for a 1991 boat but not new! So listing the fact that the curtains are a bit faded isn't going to happen?!

 

[[70521]]

I wonder what the forum thinks about my dilemma. I had a survey this year for insurance purposes and the report which came back was on the harsh end of the spectrum. Some of the findings I agree with and am in the process of fixing. One or two of the findings I do not agree with and are frankly uneconomic to carry out.
My problem is I want to sell the boat and the people who I engaged to sell the boat insist on me disclosing the survey to potential buyers. If I thought it was fair, I would, but since it is so harsh I feel that showing it would be shooting myself in the foot.

It is common for a potential buyer to commission their own "for purchase" survey which is different to a insurance survey. Are you planning to sell the boat?

Personally, I want to see an up to date survey is I am spending my hard taxed cash.

 

[ghostlymoron]

A buyer can try to negotiate the price down using a survey report but the seller is under no obligation to cooperate.

 

[pvb]

I’ve rejected a boat based on a survey which found the gas system to be leaking and the outdrive needed new bellows. Seller refused an adjustment or fix, so I walked. Took him another six months to sell for work that might have cost £350.

Unless it was a £1000 boat, if you were interested enough to pay for a survey, why didn't you just go ahead and buy it? £350 is neither here nor there in overall boaty terms.

 

[thinwater]

Just remember that you are legally bound to disclose what you know. The facts of the survey (correcting what has been repaired, of course), but not necessarily the opinions.

What I implied, I thought, is you are bound to disclose facts. If a prior survey noted something material and factual, you are bound to disclose it, even if a later survey overlooks it. If the facts were incorrect, then they weren't facts, they were either errors (wrong number of cylinders) or opinions (curtains are faded--this is a condition of age and is clearly visible).

But also look at it from the inspector's point of view. He is bound to report both factual condition and description, AND to offer an opinion of the condition of the boat. Don't be insulted when he mentions that something is faded. It is (curtains or upholstery can be up-dated). That is normal for the age, is visible, and is not a point of post-offer negotiation. That should be obvious to both parties. But for example, the survey may also be used to get a loan, and the surveyor must thus report his opinion of condition and value. If she is an old girl in good condition, the report will still say she is old. The surveyor has a professional obligation to report that as well.

[I worked for many years as a licensed inspector of refinery equipment. You take pride in the accuracy of your reports. Reports contain factual elements (the metal is thin by UT), code failures (repair was made incorrectly), and opinions (it needs paint). The report is incomplete without ALL of these elements. They are indifferent sections. The owner is bound to report the code and engineering facts, but broader opinions of condition are only opinions and can be private.]

 

[earlybird]

What I implied, I thought, is you are bound to disclose facts. If a prior survey noted something material and factual, you are bound to disclose it, even if a later survey overlooks it. .

I wouldn't have thought that applied to a private vendor. It might seem unethical, but there is no legal obligation if the vendor is not operating in the course of business and no warranty is offered. I would agree however that the vendor must not make claims that are untrue.
Also, I would say that a broker can only repeat what he has been told and which he reasonably believes to be correct. Caveat emptor!

 

[thinwater]

I wouldn't have thought that applied to a private vendor. It might seem unethical, but there is no legal obligation if the vendor is not operating in the course of business and no warranty is offered. I would agree however that the vendor must not make claims that are untrue.
Also, I would say that a broker can only repeat what he has been told and which he reasonably believes to be correct. Caveat emptor!

I can't say in the UK, but in the US even a private seller has the legal duty to disclose what they know. if it was in a survey, you know it unless you can refute it. This has been upheld by the courts. This applies to businesses, motor vehicles, boats, and real estate. It is not a matter of warranty, but a matter of truthful representation.

No caveat emptor. If I later learn the car was in an accident or the boat sank (or you knowingly failed to disclose anything material that you knew about), I can sue and will very likely win, with allowance for my costs. I do not know about the UK, but isn't it better to be honest? This change in the US has made buying things better over the years. Fewer scam artists.

 

[Tranona]

I wouldn't have thought that applied to a private vendor. It might seem unethical, but there is no legal obligation if the vendor is not operating in the course of business and no warranty is offered. I would agree however that the vendor must not make claims that are untrue.
Also, I would say that a broker can only repeat what he has been told and which he reasonably believes to be correct. Caveat emptor!

The seller can be guilty of misrepresentation if he knows there is a fault and hides it. Having a survey that identifies something is wrong and not disclosing is very risky as the chances are that a subsequent survey will identify the same fault(s) and wish to renegotiate. So better to come clean about it in the first place.

 

[duncan99210]

Unless it was a £1000 boat, if you were interested enough to pay for a survey, why didn't you just go ahead and buy it? £350 is neither here nor there in overall boaty terms.

It was the attitude of the seller: his take it or leave meant I left it.

 

[langstonelayabout]

I’ve rejected a boat based on a survey which found the gas system to be leaking and the outdrive needed new bellows. Seller refused an adjustment or fix, so I walked. Took him another six months to sell for work that might have cost £350.
Last boat I bought, surveyor identified faults that needed fixing, seller had the work done to my satisfaction, boat sold.

You were possibly right to. DIY gas repair is a cheap enough job before paying the GBP 80.00 or so to have the installation certified but a friend paid over GBP 1200.00 to have his saildrive seal changed a few years ago...

 

[Momac]

I had a pre purchase survey on my present boat which found a number of defects that were not highlighted to me when viewing the boat. I reduced my offer accordingly but had to give a little on that as some of the defects were not major.

At the same time my previous boat was surveyed and found some defects that I had not been aware of. Next time I would be more thorough in checking everything before sale.

I don't think you can deduct for minor cosmetic things such as faded decals which are normal wear and tear. A slight sagging headlining is presumably an easy fix?