Selling boat - survey and repairing deficiencies

[roblpm]

I have just been reading the RYA sale contract. I am going to sell my boat. Value say £23,000.

Now as I see it I list everything as honestly as possible. Accept offer. Sign contract. Buyer has survey. Buyer potentially comes back with deficiencies.

Now when I bought her 5 years ago I didn't bother going back to the seller and asking for money off for bits and pieces. What is people's experience of this. She is a 27 year old boat. She is in pretty good nick but for example the headlining in the forecabin is sagging, the external decals need doing. On the other hand she has newish sails, new Sprayhood and sail cover etc etc etc.

I suppose I just list the defects? Tbh if people come back with too much i will just sell it to someone else. But how do people make clear that there isn't going to be too much haggling? Obviously if i just say not really the potential buyer will have wasted money on the survey.

Aha maybe this is the answer. Use 5221 in the contract. Delete the next bit? And tell the potential buyer this is how its going to work. I would rather they knocked a grand off the price for contingencies than we messed around haggling. Then they can pull out if they find something they don't like.

The boat is in demand i think. At least down south! So will try and sell privately in the wastes of Edinburgh. If that doesn't work will move down south.

 

[langstonelayabout]

In practice many buyers use their survey as a lever to get the price reduced.

Experience of this (and losing a sale due to an inaccurate survey) leads me to recommend that you are in attendance for the survey in order that you can answer the surveyor's questions. The rot that was written on the survey for the last boat I sold led me to doubt the competence of the supposedly reputable surveyor.

 

[roblpm]

In practice many buyers use their survey as a lever to get the price reduced.

Experience of this (and losing a sale due to an inaccurate survey) leads me to recommend that you are in attendance for the survey in order that you can answer the surveyor's questions. The rot that was written on the survey for the last boat I sold led me to doubt the competence of the supposedly reputable surveyor.

But tbh there aren't any of these particular boats on sale. I will just say no! One just sold at Clarke and Carter in about four weeks. It did have a new engine. But im not in a massive hurry. I made the mistake of paying a years marina in advance and then deciding to sell the boat a couple of weeks after the contract started!

 

[langstonelayabout]

You did ask!

 

[scruff]

If a survey threw up something cosmetic and apparent during a viewing, then no scope to haggle. If they survey uncovered something "Hidden" such as a bulkhead de-laminating from hull or keel about to fall off then you'd expect negotiations to start...

 

[tidclacy]

Recently sold my boat (20 years old ) and due to survey had to drop price by just over 1k. Left them to do the work. Wanted to get rid of it too be honest, left them to do fitting out anti foul etc so saved money on that plus got money back from Marina. If had haggled could have cost me as much as I saved.

Depends how quickly you want to sell, what the current market is and what your type of boat has sold for recently.

Sagging headlining is a bit no no will put a lot of people off

 

[robmcg]

If a survey threw up something cosmetic and apparent during a viewing, then no scope to haggle. If they survey uncovered something "Hidden" such as a bulkhead de-laminating from hull or keel about to fall off then you'd expect negotiations to start...

Absolutely agree and this is the way we have always approached both buying and selling boats. They are used items, it's unrealistic to not expect cosmetic wear and tear.

 

[thinwater]

If a survey threw up something cosmetic and apparent during a viewing, then no scope to haggle. If they survey uncovered something "Hidden" such as a bulkhead de-laminating from hull or keel about to fall off then you'd expect negotiations to start...

Obvious isn't really the right word. Visible and easily evaluated is more to the point. A great many important things can be nothing more than a "condition of age." For example, the sails may be old. If the sun cover is loose, this was viewable on offer day and it is on them that they didn't look.

One the other hand, you should not take negotiations personally. Different people have different styles and you are not getting married. It's just business. Say yes or say no, your choice, but remember that a boat costs X value/day when just sitting (slip fees, insurance, time value of money, age, maint, wear).

 

[Concerto]

Generally a surveyor will comment on the condition of many things, but structural issues are the only ones that can alter the price. Structural issues can be varied from areas of delamination or damage in GRP, osmosis, water in a rudder, weak keel joint, faulty electrics, etc. These affect the structure of the boat, other items are replaceable like sails and are in the condition as seen.

Unfortunately it is a buyers market for older boats. If your boat is in above average condition, it should sell quickly if sensibly priced. When negotiating any price alterations after survey, remember your first loss is usually the smallest loss. It is better to complete a transaction, rather than wait for another customer to come along especially if you are in an expensive marina or yard which could cost more than any price reduction.

When I was looking for a boat, I saw one in a yard with an asking price of £21,000. The agent said the seller was prepared to accept £18,000. I value it at £12,000. Needless to say it was grossly overpriced. Some 4 years later it was eventually sold, after the cockpit drains became blocked and the boat filled with water, for £4,100. In fact it had been in the yard for 3 years before I looked at it, so 7 years of yard fees had meant the seller had got nothing for his boat. What a fool.

 

[roblpm]

You did ask!

Yes wasn't meaning to be abrupt. Just wondering what normally happens! And what the reaction to me saying "oh well i will find someone else".

 

[roblpm]

Recently sold my boat (20 years old ) and due to survey had to drop price by just over 1k. Left them to do the work. Wanted to get rid of it too be honest, left them to do fitting out anti foul etc so saved money on that plus got money back from Marina. If had haggled could have cost me as much as I saved.

Depends how quickly you want to sell, what the current market is and what your type of boat has sold for recently.

Sagging headlining is a bit no no will put a lot of people off

Main cabin headlining is rigid and fine. Just a bit of carpet sagging in the forepeak.

 

[roblpm]

Generally a surveyor will comment on the condition of many things, but structural issues are the only ones that can alter the price. Structural issues can be varied from areas of delamination or damage in GRP, osmosis, water in a rudder, weak keel joint, faulty electrics, etc. These affect the structure of the boat, other items are replaceable like sails and are in the condition as seen.

Unfortunately it is a buyers market for older boats. If your boat is in above average condition, it should sell quickly if sensibly priced. When negotiating any price alterations after survey, remember your first loss is usually the smallest loss. It is better to complete a transaction, rather than wait for another customer to come along especially if you are in an expensive marina or yard which could cost more than any price reduction.

When I was looking for a boat, I saw one in a yard with an asking price of £21,000. The agent said the seller was prepared to accept £18,000. I value it at £12,000. Needless to say it was grossly overpriced. Some 4 years later it was eventually sold, after the cockpit drains became blocked and the boat filled with water, for £4,100. In fact it had been in the yard for 3 years before I looked at it, so 7 years of yard fees had meant the seller had got nothing for his boat. What a fool.

Sure. I get that. But a comparable boat with a new engine but less new other bits just sold in about 4 weeks. Thats darn sarf though. I will move mine if it hasn't sold by September. Clarke and Carter Ipswich.

 

[Caer Urfa]

Your not selling on eBay so Why declare whats wrong with the boat as surely its up to the new buyer to find out or his surveyor, yes if anything is broken or does not work FIX it before the sale otherwise you would be open to be knocked down on price but would you say your house brickwork needs re pointing or the roof needs re tilling or the radiator is a bit rusty if selling your house? no I don't think so.

I sold my boat in four days last year, yes be honest and fair about what you are selling but its up to the buyer to judge whats not correct or needs repair, plus any cosmetic repairs are not usually negotiable as the buyer should clearly see them and its not your job to go around pointing out everything to him/her..

When selling 'presentation is everything' so clean the boat inside and out and make sure everything works and there are NO smells.

Good luck.

 

[Graham376]

When I sold the Berwick, first prospective buyer's surveyor found totally unrealistic problems and suggested £5k be knocked off. There was an "off" in my reply and second prospect's different surveyor gave it a clean bill of health at asking price. Some surveyors and buyers like to play games but time to worry is when several all say the same thing about reducing value.

 

[roblpm]

Your not selling on eBay so Why declare whats wrong with the boat as surely its up to the new buyer to find out or his surveyor, yes if anything is broken or does not work FIX it before the sale otherwise you would be open to be knocked down on price but would you say your house brickwork needs re pointing or the roof needs re tilling or the radiator is a bit rusty if selling your house? no I don't think so.

I sold my boat in four days last year, yes be honest and fair about what you are selling but its up to the buyer to judge whats not correct or needs repair, plus any cosmetic repairs are not usually negotiable as the buyer should clearly see them and its not your job to go around pointing out everything to him/her..

When selling 'presentation is everything' so clean the boat inside and out and make sure everything works and there are NO smells.

Good luck.

Yes. Cleaning. She is clean. But will be cleaner!!

Thanks

 

[superheat6k]

Any defects you have openly declared and so that any would be buyer is aware of at the time he makes his offer are surely taken in to due account in the offer they may make, so they cannot come back later and ask for a reduction, regardless of what a surveyor may report.

If a surveyor discovers undisclosed defects then that is a different matter entirely, as is whether or not you agree with the surveyor - osmosis reports are a common issue where a slightly higher dampness reading may lead to all sorts of adverse comments on a survey report, and I have lost at least one sale through what was backside covering scaremongering by the surveyor.

I won't have that surveyor back on any boat I own - he will kill the deal anyway, so if they tell me this specific individual is instructed I shall tell them not to bother and save themselves £500.

You are right to question surveys - the last boat I sold the survey report bore little resemblance to the comments being made on the day, and yes the buyer did use it as a cudgel to beat me with. One thing I absolutely refused to bow to was the suggestion by the buyer's engine surveyor that, as he could not find anything wrong with the engines, the buyer ought to lump £3k off the price 'just in case'.

 

[thinwater]

Any defects you have openly declared and so that any would be buyer is aware of at the time he makes his offer are surely taken in to due account in the offer they may make, so they cannot come back later and ask for a reduction, regardless of what a surveyor may report....

If a surveyor discovers undisclosed defects then that is a different matter entirely, as is whether or not you agree with the surveyor - osmosis reports are a common issue where a slightly higher dampness reading may lead to all sorts of adverse comments on a survey report, and I have lost at least one sale through what was backside covering scaremongering by the surveyor.

I won't have that surveyor back on any boat I own - he will kill the deal anyway, so if they tell me this specific individual is instructed I shall tell them not to bother and save themselves £500.

You are right to question surveys - the last boat I sold the survey report bore little resemblance to the comments being made on the day, and yes the buyer did use it as a cudgel to beat me with. One thing I absolutely refused to bow to was the suggestion by the buyer's engine surveyor that, as he could not find anything wrong with the engines, the buyer ought to lump £3k off the price 'just in case'.

The 3K adjustment is a perfect example of an "allowance" the buyer should have included in the offer due to age. This is different from a post survey adjustment. When you buy a used boat there should always be an allowance for repairs in your budget; even the best prepared boat from the most conscientious seller will have things wear out and will have surprises. That is the nature of older boats.

 

[roblpm]

Any defects you have openly declared and so that any would be buyer is aware of at the time he makes his offer are surely taken in to due account in the offer they may make, so they cannot come back later and ask for a reduction, regardless of what a surveyor may report.

If a surveyor discovers undisclosed defects then that is a different matter entirely, as is whether or not you agree with the surveyor - osmosis reports are a common issue where a slightly higher dampness reading may lead to all sorts of adverse comments on a survey report, and I have lost at least one sale through what was backside covering scaremongering by the surveyor.

I won't have that surveyor back on any boat I own - he will kill the deal anyway, so if they tell me this specific individual is instructed I shall tell them not to bother and save themselves £500.

You are right to question surveys - the last boat I sold the survey report bore little resemblance to the comments being made on the day, and yes the buyer did use it as a cudgel to beat me with. One thing I absolutely refused to bow to was the suggestion by the buyer's engine surveyor that, as he could not find anything wrong with the engines, the buyer ought to lump £3k off the price 'just in case'.

Well actually I am not in a hurry to sell. I stupidly paid the marina until march 2019! So I shall fettle her and sail her a bit over the summer. Park her and fettle her over the winter. And then tow or sail her to Clarke and Carter on March the 30th 2019! So I don't mind low offers. But I do mind an offer that then suddenly gets 3k lower for no reason!!

 

[shaunksb]

Yes wasn't meaning to be abrupt. Just wondering what normally happens! And what the reaction to me saying "oh well i will find someone else".

The thing is if the buyer is genuinely interested and has a survey he has already an emotional and financial stake in completing the sale.

If there are a few cosmetic issues (my last boat had a bent stantion) then that’s just what it is.

If on the other hand the surveyor found the seacocks are on their last legs then I’d expect to knock a bit more off to cover that as long as they weren’t taking the Michael.

_________________________

 

[lw395]

Well actually I am not in a hurry to sell. I stupidly paid the marina until march 2019! So I shall fettle her and sail her a bit over the summer. Park her and fettle her over the winter. And then tow or sail her to Clarke and Carter on March the 30th 2019! So I don't mind low offers. But I do mind an offer that then suddenly gets 3k lower for no reason!!

From what I've seen, the attempts to negotiate the price downward after survey are rarely for 'no reason'.
Defects will be found.
Some trivial.
Some the buyer should have noticed himself.
Some scary sometimes.

Sometimes it pays to get the defects sorted.
Sometimes it's worth the vendor getting quotes or estimates to get the work done.
Soemtimes it's worth getting an expert to look into what the surveyor has questioned. Whether that's a rigger or an electrician or a grp worker or an expert on the make of boat.
Sometimes you need to stand firm and say you won't reduce more than 'x'.

With reference to another thread, I think selling in the spring attracts dreamers. Before you know it, the season is half gone.
Serious buyers are usually looking at boats by early autumn, because they know you usually need to have done the deal by xmas to get the boat sorted and in the water by April.
Boats can be sold quickly, but usually the booking a survey, waiting for the report, sorting the fallout cycle kills a month or more.