Seller/ broker disclosure

If something is going to cost 10k to fix....might as well take 15k off original price.

a buyer gets a cheaper boat and may or may not fix the issue (say osmosis)

the seller could spend 10k and still get chipped 5k off original asking so 15k down overall anyway.

everyone moves on with their lives
 
FARSCO said:
If something is going to cost 10k to fix....might as well take 15k off original price.

a buyer gets a cheaper boat and may or may not fix the issue (say osmosis)

the seller could spend 10k and still get chipped 5k off original asking so 15k down overall anyway.

everyone moves on with their lives
Click to expand...
Sounds OK in principle. When I was in this position, the vendor's reaction to the notion of a price reduction was to tell me to piss off, and put the unrectified boat back on the market at higher price, where it remains to this day.
 
Scala said:
Sounds OK in principle. When I was in this position, the vendor's reaction to the notion of a price reduction was to tell me to piss off, and put the unrectified boat back on the market at higher price, where it remains to this day.
Click to expand...

Chum of mine went to look at a Broom in a Thames Marina. Made a couple of visits involving considerable distance and money laid out for surveys etc
All looked OK so lift was arranged to finalise purchase, paid for by the buyer of course.
The boat was riddled with obvious blisters that could not have possibly developed in the short time since the boat was last taken out of the water.
Not unusual for hard to shift boats to be bundled off to the Thames to sell and it seems to work.
Buyer got a quote to fix osmosis and went back to seller, some desultory reduction was mentioned .
Buyer walked away a lot poorer and wiser
The boat vanished from the brokers listings and then reappeared.
Somehow doubt it had the osmosis fixed.
 
I guess in these scenario it rather depends on issue and values. Say a survey reveals osmosis in rudder so price to fix is well known ie it’s an often found complaint in yachts of early 2000s . The buyer then wants a large reduction but boat is already below market value says the seller so priced to reflect. If the buyer cannot understand this the seller just decides he doesn’t want to sell to this person due to attitude adopted. A reasonable seller might then go out and have issue fixed so it’s not there should another buyer come along or he keeps a boat. Clearly this is for just one issue but sometimes the attitude of a buyer might just lead to a breakdown in trust between parties maybe on occasion?
 
volvopaul said:
Just thought I’d give my feelings on this subject , I am interested in your views on this factual event .

So what’s your view folks? Who is in the wrong on this one , Thought this might make a nice topic for a Saturday evening .
Click to expand...

Would this be the same broker on the south coast who i (twice) had a similar experience with Paul?
 
I am a new power boat purchaser trading up from racing dinghys and fishing boats. I was also a London insurance broker for 35 years so understand the concept of "upmost good faith". I bought an 8 metre boat through a well known international broker as the advertisement was clear about number of owners and condition and facilities. I arranged a viewing and booked a survey using the surveyor known to the broker - which would not be unusual in a locality? I arrived and met the broker and the surveyor who commented he had been there for 2 hours already checking the boat. We went through the inspection and then a sea trial. I know nothing about motor cruisers but could see the condition was good. There was a sink and heads and switch for shore power and water heater etc. During sea trial the surveyor was making notes and taking temperatures of the engine etc. Then back to the dock for a lift out and jet wash. Some small blisters on the keel were noted and I got a lot of guff about how the glass was laid up wrong etc. but it was not of great concern to me being on the keel not the hull itself. A missing anode was replaced on the prop. All looked good so I bought it. A survey report was provided.
Then you get to have a good look round and start to notice things you completely missed at inspection. The sink had a tap but it was only a cold tap. Hold on it said in the advert hot/cold water........ so I didn't think to check!
Then I check the survey and notice "clorifier system checked and OK" ...... but there is no calorifier. The shore power switch is not actually connected to the heater at all as there isn't one. The system pumps were "2 Jabasco" but are in fact different makes of pumps! So much of the survey is BS and the fact the guy was on board for so long before I got there is also BS.
After the 7 hour passage back to our base we had steam coming from the exhaust which still needs investigating. The broker was not interested and firstly advised they all steam a bit. Also he cannot guarantee the details provided by the seller. I know the broker knows the seller as the boat has been based in the same Club since purchase. I think no hot water is a relevant detail. The surveyor said he must have missed the calorifier and made a mistake! So I have to install a hot water system myself. So both "professionals" were worse than useless and I will not bother again as will be able to do my own survey and tests. If I have major engine problems it will be too late to resolve now as I cannot do any work on the boat yet and I can guarantee the broker will just not respond anyway.
So beware as any integrity is non existent in my experience.
 
Sounds like a typical sort of survey to me .
The problem could be that a boat is simply a collection of bits all moving along at the same time (usually) .
Unlike motor vehicles , boats have a constantly changing tally of components which have been changed/replaced/ substituted during its life .
Suspect even a brand new boat will not emerge from the factory with exactly the same items installed in the same way as the boat prior or after. A most intriguing marine concept is always to leave any failed item in situ and then run some totally unsuitable/unidentifiable wiring to power the replacement .
Under no circunstances must any old wiring be removed ...ever
 
My last boat I relied on the dealers survey they had done whilst taking it in px. This they told me was a shortened survey which it was but covered the essentials.

my “ survey “ was some 3 hours on the boat by myself. I found many many things and the bill paid by the vendor to fix stuff was about £10k. Much was small but it does add up and up and up.

I think surveyors have their place ( there are many things I don’t know ) but making sure the complex domestics across a decent sized boat Really work is time consuming and not what they have been trained for

-does ac work in heat mode.
-do both ac packs work
-Will the generator run for 30 mins
- does the rib start
- will the paserelle lift the rib
- oven / Hob work
- hot water
- do the lights all work
- do the toilets work ( vacuflush anyone !)

etc etc etc. You can end up with an expensive list. Choice is who pays. You or them
 
Last edited:
I rejected a steel boat on the Thames a few years ago. Was just about to get a lift and survey when on one visit (with owner, without broker) I asked to look through old paperwork, found a 5 year old survey. Quick skim through revealed a note that due to being steel and had thinned also suspect rust bore holes a strip back reweld was recommended in about 5 years, ie now. Also noted that whilst broker onboard there was no bilge pump running and a small amount of water in the bilge was quite normal due to glands dripping. Without broker noted bilge cutting in every 10 mins. Now obvious that the bore holes were weeping.
Total cost of work was about 15k so I modified my offer as it was now a project.
At time of rejection heard broker whisper to owner that he should never have shown me the old survey and the broker still wanted me to pay for a lift and survey to assess if work was needed.
still on the market 5 years later
 
freddyuk said:
I am a new power boat purchaser trading up from racing dinghys and fishing boats. I was also a London insurance broker for 35 years so understand the concept of "upmost good faith". I bought an 8 metre boat through a well known international broker as the advertisement was clear about number of owners and condition and facilities. I arranged a viewing and booked a survey using the surveyor known to the broker - which would not be unusual in a locality? I arrived and met the broker and the surveyor who commented he had been there for 2 hours already checking the boat. We went through the inspection and then a sea trial. I know nothing about motor cruisers but could see the condition was good. There was a sink and heads and switch for shore power and water heater etc. During sea trial the surveyor was making notes and taking temperatures of the engine etc. Then back to the dock for a lift out and jet wash. Some small blisters on the keel were noted and I got a lot of guff about how the glass was laid up wrong etc. but it was not of great concern to me being on the keel not the hull itself. A missing anode was replaced on the prop. All looked good so I bought it. A survey report was provided.
Then you get to have a good look round and start to notice things you completely missed at inspection. The sink had a tap but it was only a cold tap. Hold on it said in the advert hot/cold water........ so I didn't think to check!
Then I check the survey and notice "clorifier system checked and OK" ...... but there is no calorifier. The shore power switch is not actually connected to the heater at all as there isn't one. The system pumps were "2 Jabasco" but are in fact different makes of pumps! So much of the survey is BS and the fact the guy was on board for so long before I got there is also BS.
After the 7 hour passage back to our base we had steam coming from the exhaust which still needs investigating. The broker was not interested and firstly advised they all steam a bit. Also he cannot guarantee the details provided by the seller. I know the broker knows the seller as the boat has been based in the same Club since purchase. I think no hot water is a relevant detail. The surveyor said he must have missed the calorifier and made a mistake! So I have to install a hot water system myself. So both "professionals" were worse than useless and I will not bother again as will be able to do my own survey and tests. If I have major engine problems it will be too late to resolve now as I cannot do any work on the boat yet and I can guarantee the broker will just not respond anyway.
So beware as any integrity is non existent in my experience.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you had a surveyor that’s in bed with the broker , a lesson to never trust a broker or seller on surveyors , choose your own , ask on here etc etc .
you were well within your rights to sue the surveyor fit the cost of the hot water system he should have been insured .
 
oldgit said:
Sounds like a typical sort of survey to me .
The problem could be that a boat is simply a collection of bits all moving along at the same time (usually) .
Unlike motor vehicles , boats have a constantly changing tally of components which have been changed/replaced/ substituted during its life .
Suspect even a brand new boat will not emerge from the factory with exactly the same items installed in the same way as the boat prior or after. A most intriguing marine concept is always to leave any failed item in situ and then run some totally unsuitable/unidentifiable wiring to power the replacement .
Under no circunstances must any old wiring be removed ...ever
Click to expand...

Sometimes its next to impossible, radar cables for example. Most of the time they are put in place while the boat is being built, even if in cable ducting, the cables twist around each other making removal impractical.
If I have to leave them in, the ends are insulated, marked & tied up out of the way.
 
freddyuk said:
I am a new power boat purchaser trading up from racing dinghys and fishing boats. I was also a London insurance broker for 35 years so understand the concept of "upmost good faith". I bought an 8 metre boat through a well known international broker as the advertisement was clear about number of owners and condition and facilities. I arranged a viewing and booked a survey using the surveyor known to the broker - which would not be unusual in a locality? I arrived and met the broker and the surveyor who commented he had been there for 2 hours already checking the boat. We went through the inspection and then a sea trial. I know nothing about motor cruisers but could see the condition was good. There was a sink and heads and switch for shore power and water heater etc. During sea trial the surveyor was making notes and taking temperatures of the engine etc. Then back to the dock for a lift out and jet wash. Some small blisters on the keel were noted and I got a lot of guff about how the glass was laid up wrong etc. but it was not of great concern to me being on the keel not the hull itself. A missing anode was replaced on the prop. All looked good so I bought it. A survey report was provided.
Then you get to have a good look round and start to notice things you completely missed at inspection. The sink had a tap but it was only a cold tap. Hold on it said in the advert hot/cold water........ so I didn't think to check!
Then I check the survey and notice "clorifier system checked and OK" ...... but there is no calorifier. The shore power switch is not actually connected to the heater at all as there isn't one. The system pumps were "2 Jabasco" but are in fact different makes of pumps! So much of the survey is BS and the fact the guy was on board for so long before I got there is also BS.
After the 7 hour passage back to our base we had steam coming from the exhaust which still needs investigating. The broker was not interested and firstly advised they all steam a bit. Also he cannot guarantee the details provided by the seller. I know the broker knows the seller as the boat has been based in the same Club since purchase. I think no hot water is a relevant detail. The surveyor said he must have missed the calorifier and made a mistake! So I have to install a hot water system myself. So both "professionals" were worse than useless and I will not bother again as will be able to do my own survey and tests. If I have major engine problems it will be too late to resolve now as I cannot do any work on the boat yet and I can guarantee the broker will just not respond anyway.
So beware as any integrity is non existent in my experience.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the surveyor who looked at Boadicea in November 2018 , when I nearly sold her until the surveyor saw that off with some absolute cobblers about various non existant issues, oh yes and an empty gas bottle, which was about his only accurate comment. Whereas in hindsight I am grateful for his efforts to send the would be buyer running, he will not ever set foot on any boat I own again, and I certainly would not trust him to undertake a survey for me as a would be buyer.
 
Just an update on the boat that sparked this thread .

Same boat still for sale , no mention in advert of condition .

Another boat with similar major faults . Still advertised for sale after a further survey after the one we carried out , no mention of faults in advert .

Another one , a very well known make that I was very surprised had the dreaded O and drive faults of which I advised broker and owner not to return the boat to the water in its current state , purely to avoid further water ingress damage .
Boat returned to water to hide the faults and now advertised again , with yes you will guess no disclosure of faults found .

Back to the same old story , buyer beware , buyer beware you will waste your hard earned on boats with faults .
 
volvopaul said:
Just an update on the boat that sparked this thread .

Same boat still for sale , no mention in advert of condition .

Another boat with similar major faults . Still advertised for sale after a further survey after the one we carried out , no mention of faults in advert .

Another one , a very well known make that I was very surprised had the dreaded O and drive faults of which I advised broker and owner not to return the boat to the water in its current state , purely to avoid further water ingress damage .
Boat returned to water to hide the faults and now advertised again , with yes you will guess no disclosure of faults found .

Back to the same old story , buyer beware , buyer beware you will waste your hard earned on boats with faults .
Click to expand...
Sorry for jumping on this thread so late but is the boat a Princess V42 by any chance? La Lupa to be precise ?
 
[181131] said:
Sorry for jumping on this thread so late but is the boat a Princess V42 by any chance? La Lupa to be precise ?
Click to expand...
I was employed to survey engines and drives a while back , for the record the mentioned boat was not the one that sparked the post , however there is always a story . I’ve sent you a PM
 
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