Selfish yacht, poor show Yarmouth

pcatterall said:
What could I do without in an emergency? what elements can be shut down overnight so that I can manage on reduced shore power?
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As far as I'm concerned, the real problem was that the generator was noisy enough to annoy nearby boats. The correct solution to this problem isn't radically reconfiguring the way small ships handle their power, it's properly soundproofing the generator and its exhaust so that they're practically undetectable. That'll be nicer for the guests as well when the boat's at anchor. There's a lot of boat and presumably a lot of money to play with, so it shouldn't have been hard to do when the thing was built.

Pete
 
Well I am surprised that a boat capable of using either a 64A and a 32A supply would not have a 32A cable since their are likely to be far more 32A circuits around than 64A. I am also surprised that the boats must keep their generator running all the time even whilst sailing, I would have thought the drone of it would have taken away a lot of the pleasure for the owner?

I was interested by the list of "essentials" I can see that the fridges need to run, but unless the boat has a leak do they really need to run the bilge pumps, or is it normal for boats like that to leak? I can't see that intercoms are essential nor do I understand why you need power to cook surely the cookers run on gas? It sounds to me as though you have confused needs and wants. They ant hot running water and intercoms and they want to watch TV, etc. Is is physically possible to just run lighting and refrigeration on available batteries if all other luxuries were turned off?
 
Seven Spades said:
Well I am surprised that a boat capable of using either a 64A and a 32A supply would not have a 32A cable since their are likely to be far more 32A circuits around than 64A. I am also surprised that the boats must keep their generator running all the time even whilst sailing, I would have thought the drone of it would have taken away a lot of the pleasure for the owner?

I was interested by the list of "essentials" I can see that the fridges need to run, but unless the boat has a leak do they really need to run the bilge pumps, or is it normal for boats like that to leak? I can't see that intercoms are essential nor do I understand why you need power to cook surely the cookers run on gas? It sounds to me as though you have confused needs and wants. They ant hot running water and intercoms and they want to watch TV, etc. Is is physically possible to just run lighting and refrigeration on available batteries if all other luxuries were turned off?
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some hydraulic systems use generators
 
Seven Spades said:
I was interested by the list of "essentials" I can see that the fridges need to run, but unless the boat has a leak do they really need to run the bilge pumps, or is it normal for boats like that to leak? I can't see that intercoms are essential nor do I understand why you need power to cook surely the cookers run on gas?
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even if all electric galley they surely don't cook all through the night!
 
Personally, if the HM wasn't prepared to do anything about it, I would have knocked on their hull every minute until I got their attention.

Politely asked if they would turn their generator off. If no, then point out their breach of harbour by-laws. Inform HM of such breach and refusal to comply to a polite request, whilst still knocking on their hull every minute.

Either the HM or the boat are going to do something. Maybe the HM now won't want to loose face and won't demand it's turned off so the yacht will get uppity and start being abusive.

Odds now are that the yacht will then commit a public order offence - swearing or threatening cutting of lines for example. Offer to call the police.

Job done.

Unfortunately I have had to do this for real.
 
Personally, I feel this all boils down to the HM allowing this boat to break the rules. Why?
What would happen if someone with a regular sized boat turned up and ran a genny all night? If the HM asks them to turn it off, surely they could show them a copy of this thread, including their own response?
 
Cardo said:
Personally, I feel this all boils down to the HM allowing this boat to break the rules. Why?
What would happen if someone with a regular sized boat turned up and ran a genny all night? If the HM asks them to turn it off, surely they could show them a copy of this thread, including their own response?
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+10
 
I think that if I had a stupid amount of money to spend on boating I'd have a collection of boats around the world that were of a size I could sail myself instead of one big humping 64 Amp thing that makes everyone else jealous. Lets see - a deck house jobby in Scotland to keep the rain and midgies out, an HR in the Med, a Dragonfly somewhere for some fun, a cat in the Carib...and then duplicate it all in the southern hemisphere so that summer never set on my fleet. Now how much fun would that be? :)
 
I never get the name I wa said:
Now look here everybody.

To quote CelebrityScandal ... sorry ... Scandel, too many of you are bellyaching and have green eyes and are driven by envy.

Just stop it now and remember your place in society.

How very dare you think that needing a full cooking range and comms and and ... at midnight is unreasonable.

Personally I feel sorry for the poor sod who owns the yacht. Presumably the genny is going ALL the time they're not hooked up.

Sounds fun.
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lets hope its not a Fischer Panda then :D
 
CelebrityScandel said:
Hi Seven Spades, a reasonable question rather than the bellyaching of many of the others in this thread.

The responses some others have made to your post indicate they have no concept whatsoever as to what large yacht's systems are like, perhaps thinking we survive on canned food, little meth cooker, candles and old books for entertainment, and are no different in systems requirements to their own small weekend crusier. Of course, some are driven by green eyes and envy to be destructive in their comments.

I do not know the boat concerned but by coincidence it is very similar size to us, a sloop and around the same length, so I can give an indication of our own loads. They are pretty typical. I am not mentioning these as any excuse for the vessel in question's situation, because I do not know the circumstances, and, as this thread shows, some will bellyache over anything, regardless how trivial, so maybe there was no real issue at all. But just to help you answer your own question for yourself.

A big load in port, assuming aircon is off, is the galley. We have close to 30 amp at 230 volt total potential load just in the galley. This is made up of ovens and grillers (2 off), large cook top, big freezer, big refrigerator, hot water, drinks chiller, microwave oven (2), extractor, and trash compactor. I think I have hit them all. In port we could go without the likes of the drinks chiller, and trash compactor for a few days to lessen battery load, if one was to try to have battery backup, but those are small loads. Freezer and refrigerator are sized for extensive cruising periods away from supermarkets or other reliable sources, and are commercial construction and sizes (as is the cooking equipment) not small domestic.

So, just taking the galley I think one can see that the load is just too great for batteries backup and inverter up to 230v (or 110/120 v), and it would be most unusual for such a provision to be made. To significantly cut the galley 230v ac load we would have to give up cooking, transfer all frozens ashore, etc, etc.

On top of the above many essential services on the boat are 230v, or off batteries to 24/12v DC, including bilge pumps, battery charging, comm's, alarms, intercom, etc and which must not be disabled for safety reasons, some even when there is no one on board.

Our internal domestic lighting load, hot water, laundry, entertainment, etc, etc probably averages about the same as a 6-8 person household. Some of that e.g. laundry, can be off loaded to shore.

There is mandated battery backup for navigation, nav lights, comm's, and various emergency systems for vessels such as ours, but these loads are comparatively small (although larger than most smaller vessels total power demand) and are required to be on permanent charge for emergency use only and so AC has to be available for that.

So, in the end, the boat is dependant on AC power, even if no one is on board. That demand exceeds any reasonable expectation one can have for batteries so unless shore power is available a generator must be run.

We could get by on the 32 amps that is available apparantly in the marina mentioned. It would probably take several days to get a 32 Amp cable made up so for a short stay will give no result, but in the end we would not do so as the cable is part of the boat's classification society's appraised electrical design, and that appraisal is linked to our insurance.

I hope that helps you answer your question. It will, undoubtedly, give the perpetual complainers something to pratter about :).
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Short version below for all you green eyed monsters in your little boats......

........I need to run my generator all night - tough - get over yourselves and stop moaning, you're just jealous!! You muppets have no idea how complicated big boats are.......
 
AngusMcDoon said:
I think that if I had a stupid amount of money to spend on boating I'd have a collection of boats around the world that were of a size I could sail myself instead of one big humping 64 Amp thing that makes everyone else jealous... ...Now how much fun would that be? :)
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Lots of fun, doubtless...but I'm not clear why SeaQuell's users/owners/defenders are certain everyone is jealous. Of what? :confused:

Whatever yacht you own, does your time on board require I/C engines, running whenever you're afloat, to support temperature/movement of air, or the usability of saucepans or shower? Do you need hordes of paid crew who stay aboard when you go home?

Is your sailing restricted to waters deeper than at least 3 meters? Do you struggle to find a berth able to provide shorepower? Is your vessel only nominally a sailing machine, actually requiring constant oily horsepower in order to make human occupation tolerable??

That's a long way from my idea of a sailing dream, or the dream of any yachtsman I've known. Jealous? :D:D Who'd honestly want to own SeaQuell, more than they'd want a fifty-foot Oyster, or Nautor, or (your favourite, here)?

It strikes me that boats this big are so grossly out of place in small English harbours, their frustrated owners/charterers would love us to think "lucky devils!", but no-one does. Everyone just wishes they'd sling their hook - or, drop their hook, elsewhere! :rolleyes:
 
xyachtdave said:
Short version below for all you green eyed monsters in your little boats......

........I need to run my generator all night - tough - get over yourselves and stop moaning, you're just jealous!! You muppets have no idea how complicated big boats are.......
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Is this guy for real, or just pretending to be obnoxious? :D :eek:

He reminds me of a young bloke I knew, who bought the biggest car he could find, then discovered he couldn't insure it, couldn't park it anywhere, or hustle its bulk down busy city streets or country lanes...but having pinned his ego to the car, he felt obliged to sneer...

...he wasn't fooling anybody, either. :rolleyes:
 
prv said:
As far as I'm concerned, the real problem was that the generator was noisy enough to annoy nearby boats. The correct solution to this problem isn't radically reconfiguring the way small ships handle their power, it's properly soundproofing the generator and its exhaust so that they're practically undetectable. That'll be nicer for the guests as well when the boat's at anchor. There's a lot of boat and presumably a lot of money to play with, so it shouldn't have been hard to do when the thing was built.

Pete
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Spot on! Now can someone tell us why generator exhausts cannot be silenced better?
 
AngusMcDoon said:
I think that if I had a stupid amount of money to spend on boating I'd have a collection of boats around the world that were of a size I could sail myself instead of one big humping 64 Amp thing that makes everyone else jealous. Lets see - a deck house jobby in Scotland to keep the rain and midgies out, an HR in the Med, a Dragonfly somewhere for some fun, a cat in the Carib...and then duplicate it all in the southern hemisphere so that summer never set on my fleet. Now how much fun would that be? :)
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Nah, if you had that much money you would obviously be a banker, so we would all have to come round and kill you. (Or shout some very very nasty things at you).
 
Cardo said:
Personally, I feel this all boils down to the HM allowing this boat to break the rules. Why?
What would happen if someone with a regular sized boat turned up and ran a genny all night? If the HM asks them to turn it off, surely they could show them a copy of this thread, including their own response?
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Absolutely correct, the only ones who need to answer questions here is the H.M. The 'offending' boat owner was allowed to run the genny, it appears perfectly clear he should not have been. But put the blame where it lies on the person permitting it.
 
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