Selfish yacht, poor show Yarmouth

[Judders]

You let the majority of your clients down.

Not only that, but that majority of clients are likely to be potential repeat visitors who choose Yarmouth over Lymington because of it's charms. Damage the charms and they'll all go somewhere else or just come less.

How many 108'ers are hey getting per year? It's the three visits from propper yachts that pay this bills.

 

[Seven Spades]

I don't understand why they could not turn off the genny at night and run off batteries for a few hours. Why do they need to use so much power. Yes it is a big yacht but won't it have a set of batteries that match the size of the boat? The only things they need are lighting and to keep the fridge running.

 

[Penton Hooker]

The real issue here is not so much that the boat ran its generator throughout the night, more that the authorities at Yarmouth allowed them to blatantly ignore the harbour regulations.

 

[Mudisox]

Sorry but am I missing something here, a 108 boat is delayed inside a harbour, inside the Solent because of "weather".

Surely taking risk assessment to a new level.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

I don't understand why they could not turn off the genny at night and run off batteries for a few hours. Why do they need to use so much power. Yes it is a big yacht but won't it have a set of batteries that match the size of the boat? The only things they need are lighting and to keep the fridge running.

Quite.

 

[Ex-SolentBoy]

Sorry but am I missing something here, a 108 boat is delayed inside a harbour, inside the Solent because of "weather".

Surely taking risk assessment to a new level.

Quite.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The real issue here is not so much that the boat ran its generator throughout the night, more that the authorities at Yarmouth allowed them to blatantly ignore the harbour regulations.

Quite.

 

[CelebrityScandel]

I don't understand why they could not turn off the genny at night and run off batteries for a few hours. Why do they need to use so much power. Yes it is a big yacht but won't it have a set of batteries that match the size of the boat? The only things they need are lighting and to keep the fridge running.

Hi Seven Spades, a reasonable question rather than the bellyaching of many of the others in this thread.

The responses some others have made to your post indicate they have no concept whatsoever as to what large yacht's systems are like, perhaps thinking we survive on canned food, little meth cooker, candles and old books for entertainment, and are no different in systems requirements to their own small weekend crusier. Of course, some are driven by green eyes and envy to be destructive in their comments.

I do not know the boat concerned but by coincidence it is very similar size to us, a sloop and around the same length, so I can give an indication of our own loads. They are pretty typical. I am not mentioning these as any excuse for the vessel in question's situation, because I do not know the circumstances, and, as this thread shows, some will bellyache over anything, regardless how trivial, so maybe there was no real issue at all. But just to help you answer your own question for yourself.

A big load in port, assuming aircon is off, is the galley. We have close to 30 amp at 230 volt total potential load just in the galley. This is made up of ovens and grillers (2 off), large cook top, big freezer, big refrigerator, hot water, drinks chiller, microwave oven (2), extractor, and trash compactor. I think I have hit them all. In port we could go without the likes of the drinks chiller, and trash compactor for a few days to lessen battery load, if one was to try to have battery backup, but those are small loads. Freezer and refrigerator are sized for extensive cruising periods away from supermarkets or other reliable sources, and are commercial construction and sizes (as is the cooking equipment) not small domestic.

So, just taking the galley I think one can see that the load is just too great for batteries backup and inverter up to 230v (or 110/120 v), and it would be most unusual for such a provision to be made. To significantly cut the galley 230v ac load we would have to give up cooking, transfer all frozens ashore, etc, etc.

On top of the above many essential services on the boat are 230v, or off batteries to 24/12v DC, including bilge pumps, battery charging, comm's, alarms, intercom, etc and which must not be disabled for safety reasons, some even when there is no one on board.

Our internal domestic lighting load, hot water, laundry, entertainment, etc, etc probably averages about the same as a 6-8 person household. Some of that e.g. laundry, can be off loaded to shore.

There is mandated battery backup for navigation, nav lights, comm's, and various emergency systems for vessels such as ours, but these loads are comparatively small (although larger than most smaller vessels total power demand) and are required to be on permanent charge for emergency use only and so AC has to be available for that.

So, in the end, the boat is dependant on AC power, even if no one is on board. That demand exceeds any reasonable expectation one can have for batteries so unless shore power is available a generator must be run.

We could get by on the 32 amps that is available apparantly in the marina mentioned. It would probably take several days to get a 32 Amp cable made up so for a short stay will give no result, but in the end we would not do so as the cable is part of the boat's classification society's appraised electrical design, and that appraisal is linked to our insurance.

I hope that helps you answer your question. It will, undoubtedly, give the perpetual complainers something to pratter about .

 

[A1Sailor]

Hi Seven Spades, a reasonable question rather than the bellyaching of many of the others in this thread.

The responses some others have made to your post indicate they have no concept whatsoever as to what large yacht's systems are like, perhaps thinking we survive on canned food, little meth cooker, candles and old books for entertainment, and are no different in systems requirements to their own small weekend crusier. Of course, some are driven by green eyes and envy to be destructive in their comments.

I do not know the boat concerned but by coincidence it is very similar size to us, a sloop and around the same length, so I can give an indication of our own loads. They are pretty typical. I am not mentioning these as any excuse for the vessel in question's situation, because I do not know the circumstances, and, as this thread shows, some will bellyache over anything, regardless how trivial, so maybe there was no real issue at all. But just to help you answer your own question for yourself.

A big load in port, assuming aircon is off, is the galley. We have close to 30 amp at 230 volt total potential load just in the galley. This is made up of ovens and grillers (2 off), large cook top, big freezer, big refrigerator, hot water, drinks chiller, microwave oven (2), extractor, and trash compactor. I think I have hit them all. In port we could go without the likes of the drinks chiller, and trash compactor for a few days to lessen battery load, if one was to try to have battery backup, but those are small loads. Freezer and refrigerator are sized for extensive cruising periods away from supermarkets or other reliable sources, and are commercial construction and sizes (as is the cooking equipment) not small domestic.

So, just taking the galley I think one can see that the load is just too great for batteries backup and inverter up to 230v (or 110/120 v), and it would be most unusual for such a provision to be made. To significantly cut the galley 230v ac load we would have to give up cooking, transfer all frozens ashore, etc, etc.

On top of the above many essential services on the boat are 230v, or off batteries to 24/12v DC, including bilge pumps, battery charging, comm's, alarms, intercom, etc and which must not be disabled for safety reasons, some even when there is no one on board.

Our internal domestic lighting load, hot water, laundry, entertainment, etc, etc probably averages about the same as a 6-8 person household. Some of that e.g. laundry, can be off loaded to shore.

There is mandated battery backup for navigation, nav lights, comm's, and various emergency systems for vessels such as ours, but these loads are comparatively small (although larger than most smaller vessels total power demand) and are required to be on permanent charge for emergency use only and so AC has to be available for that.

So, in the end, the boat is dependant on AC power, even if no one is on board. That demand exceeds any reasonable expectation one can have for batteries so unless shore power is available a generator must be run.

We could get by on the 32 amps that is available apparantly in the marina mentioned. It would probably take several days to get a 32 Amp cable made up so for a short stay will give no result, but in the end we would not do so as the cable is part of the boat's classification society's appraised electrical design, and that appraisal is linked to our insurance.

I hope that helps you answer your question. It will, undoubtedly, give the perpetual complainers something to pratter about .

Well done for clearing this up, CelebrityScandel.
Assuming similar power requirements, it is clear that the Skipper of this particular small ship should not have taken his craft into Yarmouth. Did he have a passage plan? Does he have an almanac? I wonder if he has apologised to all those he inconvenienced.
Thanks again.

 

[Elessar]

Hi Seven Spades, a reasonable question rather than the bellyaching of many of the others in this thread.

The responses some others have made to your post indicate they have no concept whatsoever as to what large yacht's systems are like, perhaps thinking we survive on canned food, little meth cooker, candles and old books for entertainment, and are no different in systems requirements to their own small weekend crusier. Of course, some are driven by green eyes and envy to be destructive in their comments.

I do not know the boat concerned but by coincidence it is very similar size to us, a sloop and around the same length, so I can give an indication of our own loads. They are pretty typical. I am not mentioning these as any excuse for the vessel in question's situation, because I do not know the circumstances, and, as this thread shows, some will bellyache over anything, regardless how trivial, so maybe there was no real issue at all. But just to help you answer your own question for yourself.

A big load in port, assuming aircon is off, is the galley. We have close to 30 amp at 230 volt total potential load just in the galley. This is made up of ovens and grillers (2 off), large cook top, big freezer, big refrigerator, hot water, drinks chiller, microwave oven (2), extractor, and trash compactor. I think I have hit them all. In port we could go without the likes of the drinks chiller, and trash compactor for a few days to lessen battery load, if one was to try to have battery backup, but those are small loads. Freezer and refrigerator are sized for extensive cruising periods away from supermarkets or other reliable sources, and are commercial construction and sizes (as is the cooking equipment) not small domestic.

So, just taking the galley I think one can see that the load is just too great for batteries backup and inverter up to 230v (or 110/120 v), and it would be most unusual for such a provision to be made. To significantly cut the galley 230v ac load we would have to give up cooking, transfer all frozens ashore, etc, etc.

On top of the above many essential services on the boat are 230v, or off batteries to 24/12v DC, including bilge pumps, battery charging, comm's, alarms, intercom, etc and which must not be disabled for safety reasons, some even when there is no one on board.

Our internal domestic lighting load, hot water, laundry, entertainment, etc, etc probably averages about the same as a 6-8 person household. Some of that e.g. laundry, can be off loaded to shore.

There is mandated battery backup for navigation, nav lights, comm's, and various emergency systems for vessels such as ours, but these loads are comparatively small (although larger than most smaller vessels total power demand) and are required to be on permanent charge for emergency use only and so AC has to be available for that.

So, in the end, the boat is dependant on AC power, even if no one is on board. That demand exceeds any reasonable expectation one can have for batteries so unless shore power is available a generator must be run.

We could get by on the 32 amps that is available apparantly in the marina mentioned. It would probably take several days to get a 32 Amp cable made up so for a short stay will give no result, but in the end we would not do so as the cable is part of the boat's classification society's appraised electrical design, and that appraisal is linked to our insurance.

I hope that helps you answer your question. It will, undoubtedly, give the perpetual complainers something to pratter about .

You've missed the point. If the boat cannot survive on the available facilities, it shouldn't have been there. End of.

 

[onesea]

Is that a fact?

Ok maybe not a fact but, I would imagine they are not more welcomed in any port where they have to run a noisy generator 24/7 than any boat, ship or yacht would be.

Hi Seven Spades, a reasonable question rather than the bellyaching of many of the others in this thread.
................SNIP.........................
I hope that helps you answer your question. It will, undoubtedly, give the perpetual complainers something to pratter about .

OK now I have listened to your bellyaching, another point of view for you

The crew should of taken reasonable precautions before arrival if they where aware of the noise the generator makes:
1) Planning BEFORE arrival, to have appropriate cabling available,
2) Considered going to anchor & using a tender/ water taxi to go ashore,
3) Considered moving to a port where services are available, after first night when problem became apparent,

Reading some of your points regarding power consumption.
The Galley does not require full power all the time for those hours it requires more turn the freezers off. If they are the big industrial kind an hour or 3 makes little difference (they normally have a defrost cycle anyway).
If you have a professional cook it might makes his life interesting but you would not notice for a day or 5.

Same as Extractor and trash compactor, and laundry do it when other loads are less of a night? You have a professional crew to manage this for you?

The essential big consumers in services you mention should not be so essential for a day or 3, the bilges I would suspect will not be discharged in port?

There will still be basic "hotel" load hot water, domestic water pressure, communications, extraction/ accommodation fans, lighting etc, emergency lighting, fire alarm, etc Which on that size boat would not be considerer negligible.

As you said the boat could of got its power consumption down with a little for planning. It might give cause some your a crew a headache for a few days but it is that not the challenge of the job? As passenger it would be the quirks of visiting of the beaten track ports.

Then at the next refit fix the noise so none of this will be an issue

 

[westernman]

It would probably take several days to get a 32 Amp cable made up

When we visited Barcelona we did not have the right cables for power (it was all huge 3 phase stuff for yachts like yours). The Marinero made up a cable for us in the time it took us to tie off the warps correctly.

 

[Penton Hooker]

You've missed the point. If the boat cannot survive on the available facilities, it shouldn't have been there. End of.

Precisely.

 

[BlueSkyNick]

You've missed the point. If the boat cannot survive on the available facilities, it shouldn't have been there. End of.

To be fair, as a yachtie who works in a marina, I do agree with this.

([flippant] he should have come back to Lymington where the facilities ARE available .! [/flippant] )

It can get difficult when a boat turns up for one night and stays for several more, regardless of their size. The Dutch are masters at blagging a berth when they haven't booked, but their holidays are over for this year.

Yesterday, we had to reshuffle 4 boats on our plan just because one boat had 'stopped for lunch' and thought it OK to disappear into town until 5pm, by which time there was a continuous stream of boats coming in for the night.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

Of course, some are driven by green eyes and envy to be destructive in their comments.

Given the choice of a free 2 week trip on one of these huge things, or my boat, I'd still choose my boat. How boring would it be for the professional crew to have all the fun while I lazed around being pampered by servants, not being able to choose where to go and being restricted to deep harbours with 64 Amp hook-ups. I can't imagine the neighbours I'd meet would be too friendly either. Apart from showing everyone how rich and successful you are, having a boat that's too big to sail yourself and sodding inconvenient anyway seems a strange thing to do.

 

[JomsViking]

Well said

Given the choice of a free 2 week trip on one of these huge things, or my boat, I'd still choose my boat. How boring would it be for the professional crew to have all the fun while I lazed around being pampered by servants, not being able to choose where to go and being restricted to deep harbours with 64 Amp hook-ups. I can't imagine the neighbours I'd meet would be too friendly either. Apart from showing everyone how rich and successful you are, having a boat that's too big to sail yourself and sodding inconvenient anyway seems a strange thing to do.

+1

 

[Tricia]

Hi Seven Spades, a reasonable question rather than the bellyaching of many of the others in this thread.

The responses some others have made to your post indicate they have no concept whatsoever as to what large yacht's systems are like, perhaps thinking we survive on canned food, little meth cooker, candles and old books for entertainment, and are no different in systems requirements to their own small weekend crusier. Of course, some are driven by green eyes and envy to be destructive in their comments.

I do not know the boat concerned but by coincidence it is very similar size to us, a sloop and around the same length, so I can give an indication of our own loads. They are pretty typical. I am not mentioning these as any excuse for the vessel in question's situation, because I do not know the circumstances, and, as this thread shows, some will bellyache over anything, regardless how trivial, so maybe there was no real issue at all. But just to help you answer your own question for yourself.

A big load in port, assuming aircon is off, is the galley. We have close to 30 amp at 230 volt total potential load just in the galley. This is made up of ovens and grillers (2 off), large cook top, big freezer, big refrigerator, hot water, drinks chiller, microwave oven (2), extractor, and trash compactor. I think I have hit them all. In port we could go without the likes of the drinks chiller, and trash compactor for a few days to lessen battery load, if one was to try to have battery backup, but those are small loads. Freezer and refrigerator are sized for extensive cruising periods away from supermarkets or other reliable sources, and are commercial construction and sizes (as is the cooking equipment) not small domestic.

So, just taking the galley I think one can see that the load is just too great for batteries backup and inverter up to 230v (or 110/120 v), and it would be most unusual for such a provision to be made. To significantly cut the galley 230v ac load we would have to give up cooking, transfer all frozens ashore, etc, etc.

On top of the above many essential services on the boat are 230v, or off batteries to 24/12v DC, including bilge pumps, battery charging, comm's, alarms, intercom, etc and which must not be disabled for safety reasons, some even when there is no one on board.

Our internal domestic lighting load, hot water, laundry, entertainment, etc, etc probably averages about the same as a 6-8 person household. Some of that e.g. laundry, can be off loaded to shore.

There is mandated battery backup for navigation, nav lights, comm's, and various emergency systems for vessels such as ours, but these loads are comparatively small (although larger than most smaller vessels total power demand) and are required to be on permanent charge for emergency use only and so AC has to be available for that.

So, in the end, the boat is dependant on AC power, even if no one is on board. That demand exceeds any reasonable expectation one can have for batteries so unless shore power is available a generator must be run.

We could get by on the 32 amps that is available apparantly in the marina mentioned. It would probably take several days to get a 32 Amp cable made up so for a short stay will give no result, but in the end we would not do so as the cable is part of the boat's classification society's appraised electrical design, and that appraisal is linked to our insurance.

I hope that helps you answer your question. It will, undoubtedly, give the perpetual complainers something to pratter about .

I think you are missing the point. It's not that the loads are horrendous on a modern superyacht, it's the fact that he ran the generator all night when there was a 32amp shore supply.

You quote loads for an electric galley for example. Most people don't cook between midnight and 0600. Same with laundry. So the only systems that would be used would be lighting, entertainment, aircon and reefer. If you can't run lighting and entertainment systems off your battery capacity, there is something wrong. I know you cannot run aircon off an inverter system, so that leaves the reefer system. If these are running 24/7 and pulling in a lot of ampage, there is something wrong with that system as well.

And as for not having an adapter cable for your shore power to a 32amp supply, that just shows you are a muppet. I can count on the fingers of one hand marinas I have been in that had supplies larger than 32 amps.

 

[Greenheart]

...in the end, the boat is dependant on AC power, even if no one is on board. That demand exceeds any reasonable expectation one can have for batteries so unless shore power is available a generator must be run.

Thank you, CelebrityScandel (why don't you learn to spell?). For decades I've been dreaming of owning a really big sailing yacht...and in a few paragraphs, you've shown me how unhappily complicated the experience must be.

If you believed that persons who objected to this yacht's nocturnal rumblings were jealous, you're seriously out of touch...

...you may be accustomed to the industrial scale of systems on board, but I doubt 5% of contributors here would swap what they have, for the limitations, overheads and hostility encountered by such a demanding vessel as Sea Quell. (Was that name meant to be ironic?)

Ladies and gentlemen, vote with your tillers/wheels...let the berthing-master at Yarmouth know you'd sooner go to another harbour than put up with sloppy rule-bending like this. Yarmouth's appeal isn't strong enough to endure, if yacht-crews don't enjoy their visit.

 

[prv]

Yes it is a big yacht but won't it have a set of batteries that match the size of the boat?

Probably not.

It sounds like this thing is big enough to be fitted like a ship rather than like a yacht. The ship I occasionally sail on is 240v throughout, the only battery storage is the emergency backup for the radios, which lives in a vented box on the bridge so as to keep the distress signalling going until the last bit of the sinking ship slips under the waves. Everything else is powered by the generators, of which there are three service ones in the engine room and an emergency generator in its own compartment at main-deck level under the focsle - again so that the lights stay on if the engine room is flooded / on fire / etc. I've never been aboard the ship without a generator running - presumably there's provision somewhere for shore power when laid up, but I've never seen it used.

The difference is, we don't try to squeeze into yacht marinas. We did in fact stop at Yarmouth on the Azores -> Southampton run I did a few years ago, and we anchored east of the pier.

(Actually, we did berth at the marina at Cascais near Lisbon once, but they were able to put us alongside the superyacht berth by the helipad.)

Pete

 

[pcatterall]

If I had the money for a yacht of that size and wanted to be flexible in terms of where I stayed ( or had to duck into in really bad weather) then my power requirements would be one of the key items on my consideration list.
What could I do without in an emergency? what elements can be shut down overnight so that I can manage on reduced shore power?