Security bars for hatches?

[GHA]

Yes it does: padlock key hung adjacent to lock, remove lock and bar and escape.

Non issue anyway. Probabilities of needing to get out the hatch are tiny to start with, divide that but several hundred as something like this will only be deployed once in a blue moon. If you do a bit of risk analysis and think there's enough risk involved to be seriously concerned then you won't step foot on a boat to start with let alone cross an ocean in one

Plus as you say, key or whatever hanging nearby but not reachable from outside.

 

[NormanS]

Non issue anyway. Probabilities of needing to get out the hatch are tiny to start with, divide that but several hundred as something like this will only be deployed once in a blue moon. If you do a bit of risk analysis and think there's enough risk involved to be seriously concerned then you won't step foot on a boat to start with let alone cross an ocean in one

Plus as you say, key or whatever hanging nearby but not reachable from outside.

The reason that I keep banging on about emergency access, is that many years ago, I was tangentially involved in a case where a man's life was saved in a fire, because he was able to escape from fire, (from a gas explosion) through a hatch which I had installed a few weeks previously. He certainly wouldn't have had time to fiddle about with bolts or padlocks!

 

[Tim Good]

The reason that I keep banging on about emergency access, is that many years ago, I was tangentially involved in a case where a man's life was saved in a fire, because he was able to escape from fire, (from a gas explosion) through a hatch which I had installed a few weeks previously. He certainly wouldn't have had time to fiddle about with bolts or padlocks!

I think it is more an issue of being able to remove the bars when not needed as opposed to getting them off quickly. I do agree they shouldn't be there all the time but for the time they are installed the probability of there being an issue at that time is so incredibly low as already stated.

I think you're both equally right basically.

 

[Seajet]

For something like mooring to the banks as we trundle along the French canals ( a lot of places are really middle of nowhere ) I've always thought I'd have a mild steel mesh say 2" attached with wing nuts ( on welded wire lanyards so as not to lose ) on security non-undoable bolts protruding below - yes a scalping hazard but I'd just have to fit corks over the bolt ends.

As for cruising Africa, sorry I just wouldn't; carrying an assault rifle or RPG even if one can bypass corrupt customs is not the answer as has been discussed before - a yacht will always be outgunned, out armoured and out speeded by people high on drugs with nothing to lose.

I know a super-experienced delivery skipper, who is tough enough one wouldn't argue with - he is currently doing the blue water thing with his family on his own very nice big boat.

He told me before departure " **** the Carribean, all the bad guys are on crack now; we're not stopping for a second longer than we have to until we get to the Pacific ".

Cruising the African coasts seems more suitable for those ' anti-pirate adventure holiday we supply ammo ' type holidays which were advertised a while ago and were probably urban myths - either way include me out.

 

[GHA]

As for cruising Africa, sorry I just wouldn't; carrying an assault rifle or RPG even if one can bypass corrupt customs is not the answer as has been discussed before - a yacht will always be outgunned, out armoured and out speeded by people high on drugs with nothing to lose.

I know a super-experienced delivery skipper, who is tough enough one wouldn't argue with - he is currently doing the blue water thing with his family on his own very nice big boat.

He told me before departure " **** the Carribean, all the bad guys are on crack now; we're not stopping for a second longer than we have to until we get to the Pacific ".

Cruising the African coasts seems more suitable for those ' anti-pirate adventure holiday we supply ammo ' type holidays which were advertised a while ago and were probably urban myths - either way include me out.

Africa is a big place, Gambia & Senegal are nothing like that.

 

[Seajet]

Great, if you're off there I genuinely wish you a spiffing time.

 

[Tim Good]

Africa is a big place, Gambia & Senegal are nothing like that.

Exactly. You can't just generalise about "Africa"... that's really ignorant. It's as bad as people generalising about "Europe" which I've heard many times in the States and in the Far East.

And all the "bad guys are on crack" in the Caribbean. I mean seriously.

In the last year I spent 1500 miles travelling in Myanmar, 2 months Guatemala and Honduras and a lot of time in the Philippines. I feel more unsafe walking through a British city at night than I have ever in any of the countries I just listed.

And don't use what I just said to question why I started this thread...

 

[Neeves]

What about two lengths of stainless tube, one with a slightly small gauge so it slides into the other. Then at max extension two holes align, through which you insert a long shackled padlock or bolt with security but on it?

We have 1" stainless tube between 2 x 10mm 'U' bolts over our doors, (its a cat - patio type) and across 2 x 10mm acrylic hatches. The tube is secured with a large Yale padlock, the padlock fits inside an alloy tube so that it is difficult to cut the padlock. They simply cut the 'u' bolts with bolt croppers that they obviously carried as essential bits of kit. They then jemmied the door, jemmy being another essential bit of kit.

The only 'thing' I can think of that might offer a real challenge are those high tensile hexagonal security chains used for motor bikes - though how you secure the ends to resist bolt croppers - another question.

This does not solve Norman's easy exit in case of need - but illustrates that if someone wants to break in they will watch, wait and will have the necessary equipment.

I had thought that the weak point was the stainless tube and thought of stainless wire inside, as wire is difficult to cut if loose inside a tube.

We were broken into a second time. We had left a very small port light part open as vent to the shower. They sent a child in through the small port light. The child then opened a large hatch from inside (being easy to unlock in case of dire need). Another essential bit of kit - small child.


They did not touch the sailing gear - simply removed domestic items, kettle, saucepans, knife block, food etc and our bolt croppers. The damage to the, jemmied, doors cost more than the loss of items.

One theft went unresolved, the other - backpackers, caught and put on the first plane to their home.

A piezo electric alarm and strobe light are cheap and might be effective. But I do not believe you can stop a determined individual, battery angle grinders, bolt croppers, jemmies are ubiquitous.

 

[William_H]

Yes a hatch must be available for emergency exit. As required by all racing regulations. However I would suggest a stainless steel ladder shape width and rung spacing to exclude a person getting through which is hinged at inside aft of hatch so that when swung down would make escape easy but attached to the inside roof with a simple catch that hopefully is not accessible or easily figured out from outside. How easy is it for you to climb out of the forward hatch?
Note however that racing regs (a good guide to safety) require that all hatches be lockable and unlock able from both outside and inside. This in extreme conditions, crew being able to hide inside the hull but able to exit from inside while able to be unlocked from outside to enable crew to get in for shelter or to rescue people inside. It all points to a requirement for security that is contrary to safety needs at sea so requires lock to be fitted in port when leaving the boat. olewill

 

[TJ1982]

Several years ago, when involved with pyrotechnics for concerts, etc., I knew an electrician who was commissioned to fit a bespoke intruder alarm on a tour bus. He devised a system that, among other things, set of a 12-volt smoke pyro within the bus, filling the cabin with thick grey smoke. Not only did the ‘cabin’ become unnavigable, but the sight of smoke pouring out of the open door drew the attention of bystanders.

While one would have to consider the impact of misperceptions by genuine authorities in the event that they thought the vessel was on fire, I’ve always thought something similar could work quite well on a boat.

 

[KellysEye]

We carried a pepper spray to use should somebody stick their head in the hatch, available here: https://www.amazon.com/SABRE-3-Pepper-Spray-Protection/dp/B0007VM8UC

 

[PCUK]

May be a silly question but can't you just fit heavy duty lockable hatches?

 

[GHA]

May be a silly question but can't you just fit heavy duty lockable hatches?

Gets a wee bit hot in the tropics, talking about a liveaboard boat here .

 

[GHA]

Several years ago, when involved with pyrotechnics for concerts, etc., I knew an electrician who was commissioned to fit a bespoke intruder alarm on a tour bus. He devised a system that, among other things, set of a 12-volt smoke pyro within the bus, filling the cabin with thick grey smoke. Not only did the ‘cabin’ become unnavigable, but the sight of smoke pouring out of the open door drew the attention of bystanders.

While one would have to consider the impact of misperceptions by genuine authorities in the event that they thought the vessel was on fire, I’ve always thought something similar could work quite well on a boat.

Much, MUCH better idea keeping the unwanteds outside, imho.

 

[GHA]

Woke up bored in the middle of the night last night so stared at the hatch for a while.

On mine there's just enough room for some angle to fit between the deck surround & hatch, some bolted angle would just fit in there. With some studding or something between. Split pins/nyloks/lock nuts on the fasteners.

You'd still need to figure out an easy locking mechanism but something like this might work & wouldn't need any welding, no drilling holes in the boat and would dismantle for storage. Cost of some sharp drill bits & a length of stainless angle.

Quick sketch over the morning coffee >

 

[Tim Good]

GHA I can't see the sketch?

 

[GHA]

GHA I can't see the sketch?

Should be there? Maybe leave it a minute to download.

Or try again... this work?

Won't work though. Nearly, the stainless top lip is wider than the gap to the hatch - wouldn't be hard to chop off the excess or design slightly thinner.

 

[Seajet]

Exactly. You can't just generalise about "Africa"... that's really ignorant. It's as bad as people generalising about "Europe" which I've heard many times in the States and in the Far East.

And all the "bad guys are on crack" in the Caribbean. I mean seriously.

In the last year I spent 1500 miles travelling in Myanmar, 2 months Guatemala and Honduras and a lot of time in the Philippines. I feel more unsafe walking through a British city at night than I have ever in any of the countries I just listed.

And don't use what I just said to question why I started this thread...

I was using my experience working with / trying to train the members of various African air forces, and re crack the direct - not ' friend of a friend ' experience of someone I know well, certainly not a timid type, who has been all around the Caribbean a LOT.

Good luck !

 

[Daydream believer]

One of my contract managers took some of the blanks from a shot nailing gun ( Hilti do them) & rigged a firing pin & spring to the gate at the bottom of his garden. Any attempt to enter fired a shot- less bullet of course. You could have a very small gadget made to trigger on the hatch & blanks are very cheap. It went off several times over the years & alerted a few onlookers alerted by an apparent gun being fired. If inside the boat you could yell something like "You were lucky that time next time I will not miss!!". If ashore you would hear it for quite a way.

Could you just put a channel each side on the underside of the hatch out of sight & slide a 10mm polycarbonate sheet in. It would need a single bolt with wing nut welded to a machine screw to hold it & you could drill a lot of 18mm holes for ventilation. Would not look like a prison & you could lay a fly screen over it at night if you wished. To release you would just release the wingnut bolt & slide sideways which should only take a few seconds in emergency. Easy to stow when not in use.

 

[Seajet]

We'd all love to fit such kit, and it might even work on a thieving scrote in the UK, but I'd be wary of seriously 'p'ing off ( with what would be a mere tickle ) a zombied out thug carrying an AK-47 and maybe mates with RPG's !

A friend of mine in Somerset - along with his neighbours - had huge amounts of hassle with thefts, break ins and agro from local ' travellers ' ( the sort who only travel between their static caravans and the crime scene in darkened out vans ) -as usual the police were useless against an adversary who might thump them and require them to do their job, so as Peter was one of the ' huntin, shootin, fishin' set, he was quietly given some I'm sure highly illegal amateur land mines which fired a shotgun cartridge horizontally if trodden on - with an alarm system back to the house.

I hope they had some effect on the intruders, Peter was discovered a couple of days later by his grand-daughter dead in his chair ( heart attack ) with the phone off the hook, last number called 999 - the family didn't bother pursuing it.

It's tricky enough taking on the bad guys in this country, let alone crack-heads with machete's, machine guns and nothing to lose.