Second hand boat market

[Whopper]

Perhaps you don't understand the effect of inflation.

£30,000 in 1975 = £260,000 ! 2012,

£30,000 in 1986 = £75,000 2012

£30,000 in 2008 = £33,000 2012

In real terms the value of your boat today (£30,000) has cost you £230,000 in depreciation assuming a 1975 build date

I'm pretty sure NoRegrets understands the effect of inflation. It's more a conversation piece. Expressing depreciation on an asset purchased in 1975 in compounded 2012/13 terms would make for some interesting accounting.

 

[No Regrets]

You can pull all the figures you want out, but sadly you're doing it backwards, in a strange, convoluted and illogical manner.

Once you pay £30,000 for an object, it only depreciates when it dips below that figure. Even if you left the £30k in your pocket, it would be worth less if you factor in inflation...

Your workings are illogical and flawed, as I bought a boat four years ago and got my money back on it. No amount of accountants jiggery pokery is going to tell me that wasn't free boating.

Well, apart from the river licence, marina fees, alcohol, diesel, insurance.......

 

[Chris_d]

Perhaps you don't understand the effect of inflation.

£30,000 in 1975 = £260,000 ! 2012,

£30,000 in 1986 = £75,000 2012

£30,000 in 2008 = £33,000 2012

In real terms the value of your boat today (£30,000) has cost you £230,000 in depreciation assuming a 1975 build date

Not sure about those figures a single engined 30footer would be about £150,000 in todays money £260,000 sounds a lot, but it makes a point. Interestingly in 30 years I have never sold a boat for less than I paid for it, always sold for about 10-20% more after 5-10 years on average. However I fear those days are over, the market is now rather saturated with boats nobody wants.

 

[dash300]

Agreed but we are talking the Thames here,that 500hp fuel guzzling turbo charged Princess will need moving from the Solent or wherever,its arch hacked off and hinged plus bog tank fitted and BSS sorted before it goes anywhere.
As for that Sealine its a bit Hobbit Navy,endless hours weaving this way and that up the river in anything stronger than the lightest zephyr of breeze followed by sheer terror trying to go forward and stand upright when in lock.Prob best it crew live near Sellafield and have three hands.
A nice olde Broom 30 is just made for the job

I'd be quite happy owning a CLB but not sure I'm quite so pleased with the ownership classification of a NOB (nice olde Broom)

 

[DWT]

It looks like there are a number of factors at work here and I suspect a 1974 Broom may have reached the bottom of its demand curve. If and when I decide to upgrade my Broom I will probably not be looking for anything older than, say, mid nineties, especially as I will expect to have to pay a fair chunk of money to make a change worthwhile. If there are a lot of newer boats around at a reasonable price then I can see why a 1974 boat will tend to be passed over. I take the point though that when swapping boats it is the differential that matters rather than the actual price.

That said Brooms of any age are good solid river boats if well looked after which is why there are so many of them on the Thames. Mine has a couple of small Ford engines which just sip the fuel at river speeds. I understand the concern about parts for the Perkins engines on the older boats, but I think the Broom Owners Club have done some work on this and that it is less of a problem now. The more up to date boats may be better equipped with more modern engines, but the more complicated they get the more there is to go wrong. I am no kind of an engineer, but I suspect the big and rather noisy lumps driving the older boats (the engines, not the owners!) will chug on forever provided they are serviced regularly.

 

[watson1959]

I am not looking to sell or buy at the moment, but I just wondered how values are standing up in this economic climate. What prompted this query is two Broom Europeans (both older versions of my boat) which have been for sale for some months at T&K. It looks like one has been sold now, but the price on the other has just been reduced to £40k.

That looks like a bargain to me, but I was passing the boat the other day and heard someone who was viewing it rather grandly proclaim that the owner was asking too much and that it was "worth £35k tops". I resisted the temptation to tell him he was talking nonsense, but as it has been hanging around for months perhaps he was right and I am completely out of touch with values.

From the pictures on the boat sale websites it looks pretty tidy inside and it is reasonably well equipped so I would have thought it would have been snapped up at the price it is on for. I can only assume that either there are problems with the boat, or the market is far more depressed that I had realised.

Any views or insights?

Which one was it at T&K? Was it Yorkshire Rose? She was moored up at Wargrave previously and was in a right old state.....clesaned up beautifully once brought to T&K to sell. Just wish I could justify a Gin Palace like that.....I dont care what others may think

 

[Whopper]

Actually. On further thought I reckon compounding the 1975 or 1985 price is totally wrong. One would be better off using retail price index adjusted figures. Although I'll admit that RPI might not account for luxuries such as motor boats in their "basket of goods"

 

[EugeneR]

Once you pay £30,000 for an object, it only depreciates when it dips below that figure. Even if you left the £30k in your pocket, it would be worth less if you factor in inflation...

Your £30000 might not have depreciated in number terms, but in real terms, it's purchasing power has decreased significantly. If you could have a new boat for that money in 1975, no way that money will get you a new boat today. So, relative to "the value of things today" i.e. your £30000 increased by inflation, your boat has depreciated significantly.

On the positive side, your relative depreciation was therefore about the same as inflation - which is pretty good going for a boat. I previously did some analysis covering >100 boats which showed that sports cruisers (slightly different, I know) tend to drop around 10% (of remaining value) per year between years 2 and 10.

 

[Whopper]

Your £30000 might not have depreciated in number terms, but in real terms, it's purchasing power has decreased significantly. If you could have a new boat for that money in 1975, no way that money will get you a new boat today. So, relative to "the value of things today" i.e. your £30000 increased by inflation, your boat has depreciated significantly.

It shouldn't be looked at that way. You are loosely referring to the concept that is time value of money. Money available at the present time is worth more than the same amount in the future. To look at it another way. If in 1975 you were told you would receive £250k (or whatever) in 2013 or £30k immediately. What would you choose? To say that an asset worth £30k increased by inflation to 2013 values, has depreciated significantly is a flawed way of looking at it. You stand at a point in time looking forward. You don't stand at the present point in time considering a notional compounded value and then consider the difference as depreciation.

But time value of money technicalities aside, the most important consideration is opportunity cost. I'll take the compounded value for 35 years as an opportunity cost and go spend 35 years boating any day!

 

[boatone]

Oh dear this is getting a bit out in the boondocks .

Quite simple... I want a boat - I can afford £20k - what can I get that I like and think is worth the money? Simples !

 

[DWT]

Which one was it at T&K? Was it Yorkshire Rose? She was moored up at Wargrave previously and was in a right old state.....clesaned up beautifully once brought to T&K to sell. Just wish I could justify a Gin Palace like that.....I dont care what others may think

No, the one I am referring to is Dorisma. The second European which I assume has been sold is now moored on the other side of the main pontoon, but I cannot remembder the name. I don't think it was Yorkshire Rose though.

 

[watson1959]

No, the one I am referring to is Dorisma. The second European which I assume has been sold is now moored on the other side of the main pontoon, but I cannot remembder the name. I don't think it was Yorkshire Rose though.

Ahhh got it!

In fact 'Yorkhire Rose' is actually 'Pearl of Yorkshire', my mistake. One of my friends who comes along for the ride is a Rotherham lad and it used to give me great pleasure to point out the filthy Pearl of Yorkshire and say 'Hmm.... just about sums it up: looks more like a lump of coal than a pearl'

 

[dash300]

It shouldn't be looked at that way. You are loosely referring to the concept that is time value of money. Money available at the present time is worth more than the same amount in the future. To look at it another way. If in 1975 you were told you would receive £250k (or whatever) in 2013 or £30k immediately. What would you choose? To say that an asset worth £30k increased by inflation to 2013 values, has depreciated significantly is a flawed way of looking at it. You stand at a point in time looking forward. You don't stand at the present point in time considering a notional compounded value and then consider the difference as depreciation.

But time value of money technicalities aside, the most important consideration is opportunity cost. I'll take the compounded value for 35 years as an opportunity cost and go spend 35 years boating any day!

Yawn.

 

[boatone]

Yawn.

Would you mind not yawning so loudly .... you woke me up ....

 

[mersey]

Mine has a couple of small Ford engines which just sip the fuel at river speeds. I understand the concern about parts for the Perkins engines on the older boats, but I think the Broom Owners Club have done some work on this and that it is less of a problem now. The more up to date boats may be better equipped with more modern engines, but the more complicated they get the more there is to go wrong. I am no kind of an engineer, but I suspect the big and rather noisy lumps driving the older boats (the engines, not the owners!) will chug on forever provided they are serviced regularly.

Correct, the Technical Co-ordinator did a massive survey of potential part sources, and produced a big document detailing sources for all of the parts you may need for a HT-6.354. I urge any Broom owner with 6.354's to sign up to the owners club.

 

[My She]

50%? So my nearly new 2012 Viking 20 that's up for sale at £19950 that cost me £25k less than 12 months ago is only worth £10k?

Yes, mine's been on brokerage for only a few weeks but I'm down at the marina every weekend to wipe the hull and topsides, brush the carpets off where people have walked on them and clean the cockpit of muddy footprints. There's only so much a seller can do and the recent bad weather at weekends hasn't helped me.

My advice would be to get it on Ebay! We've sold two boats on Ebay at the grand cost of £17 per month - Classified Ads

 

[oldgit]

Got to worth a punt on ebay.It may expose your boat to a completely different set of possible purchasers.Some of whom may not be aware of the doom and gloom around at moment and possibly wanting to flash the cash and buy a toy to cheer them up a little.

 

[dash300]

Still reckon it's a tad early to sell. I'm going to wait for a bit of sun and for the river to get back to a more attractive appearance.

 

[No Regrets]

Thames boat Sales sold No Regrets in under 10 days.

A decent Broom 30 at the right price will sell any time of year! (Actually a good example of any boat at the right price should sell promptly at any time of year IMHO)

Go for it., the sooner the better....

 

[Deefor]

Deefor, I'll send you a PM, probably tomorrow when I have more time to organise some pithy thoughts.

Can you drop me a PM as I'm very interested in a way forward. Point taken re. photo dates and will get this rectified asap.