Sealine Salesmen!

I think you're right, the reason they wanted to change was their "feeling" as relatively new boaters, that things weren't quite right, but throughout Sealine have protested that the boat is fine just a matter of experience and settings of legs etc.
Until they came to change it it seems, although apparently the boat is still officialy, "spot on".

What is "Chine Walking"? What causes it? Don't think I've ever experienced it.

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

What is "Chine Walking"? What causes it? Don't think I've ever experienced it.

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The 'chine' is the flat on the aft hull section where the bottom meets the topsides at (more or less) a 90 degrees angle. 'Chine walking' is where the boat heels onto one chine (perhaps because of a change in wind or sea direction or strength). This provokes a turn in the same direction and then buoyancy or a steering correction makes it shift over to the other chine and then back again and so on.

I have experienced it a number of times on our S41 and it is disconcerting (to put it mildly), particularly for passengers. The sensation is a loss of directional control and there is an instinctive urge to increase opposite helm input to correct it (which I think would make things worse).

If I understand correctly, it does not occur on shaftdrive boats (somebody will probably explain why). On the occasions it has happened to me, I have tried to correct it by varying the throttle setting slightly and (in the conventional way for wind induced heel) with trim tabs but not completely successfully. It has been suggested that I should also try asymmetric throttle settings and/or leg trim but I haven't had a chance to experiment with that yet.

I would be interested to hear experience and advice from other owners or professional skippers. Might help me to short cut the trial and error process.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://aflcharters.co.uk>Dream Dancer</A>
 
doesnt happen on your boat, don't worry, its a S41 thing, feels like the boat is leaning to one side like when you do a hard turn, cept it happens when goin in a straight line, or so I have read.
New baby arriving Friday!!
PhilF

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Thanks for that, can't wait to see her but am not down for a couple of weeks possibly, best of luck with everything, regards to all. Paul

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Hi

All V bottomed boats will have the possibility to chine walk especially at speeds where very little of the hull is in the water, its important obv that chine walking is controlled as the boat can get worse and control can be completely lost- nasty!

it is controlled by knowing your boat and gaining the neccessaryexperience. inputs, little ones, of the steering are used to control this, turned opposite to the direction the boat is trying to go. Chine walking isnt a sign of a bad boat! also correct trimming helps sort it out by having more of the hiull in the water, this may affect speed and as experience increases the speed can be increased and the nose of the boat can be raised so that you are at optimum running speed but once you know the boat well and can control any chine walk that may happen

Badly set up boats with engines set at the wrong height can cause it but on a mass produced boat youd like to think this is not going to be a problem!

to help stop chine walking a tight 'flap' free steering is important as this vagueness can cause it.

outdrive boats have a tendency to chine walk as the outdrives can fish tail a bit due to their style of installation, shaft driven dont have the possibility to fish tail eliminating that possible reason for chine walking, but they still can get it being V bottomed boats, slack steering etc.

Chine walking shouldnt be looked at as a problem, unless caused by a badly set up boat! but is all part of normal driving in much the same way as learning not to smack headlong into the jetty when mooring etc.

The above all IMVHO and ill bow down ( see the pun about chine walking there?!) to people on here with far greater experience.

kevin
 
I've had 5 Sealines, all bought from Racecourse Yacht Basin in Windsor (RYB Marine Sales). This was after being pretty well ignored by the Sealine mob at Swanwick on several occasions. RYB were superb, and well worth trying if it's customer service you're after.

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Thanks for useful comments.

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it is controlled by knowing your boat and gaining the neccessaryexperience. inputs, little ones, of the steering are used to control this, turned opposite to the direction the boat is trying to go. Chine walking isnt a sign of a bad boat! also correct trimming helps sort it out by having more of the hiull in the water, this may affect speed and as experience increases the speed can be increased and the nose of the boat can be raised so that you are at optimum running speed but once you know the boat well and can control any chine walk that may happen

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I think you are confirming what I was coming to realise which is that trimming for best boat speed will not necessarily maximise the handling stability. I will try trimming the bow down a bit more to increase the wetted area even though it sacrifices speed (and thus efficiency).



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://aflcharters.co.uk>Dream Dancer</A>
 
I agree the service I have had from RYB has been superb with the new F33 we brought from them and now (thank you Neil and Richard L), however I cannot say the same about the service from Sealine, I am in serious discussions with them at the moment and subject to the outcome maybe a very, very long post on what can happen when buying a brand new Sealine F43, with issues outside of the dealers control...

Watch this space....

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Yep, cum on I'm with PhilF, lets hear more asap, RickP had some trials with his brand new F43 on delivery, anything similar?? To date our F43's been excellent with only minor hitches, well sorted by them, but would like to know what to look out for perhaps?? Paul

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All very interesting reading!

We've done a deal on an S34 with RYB and they have been first class. (Ben & Neil)

As a comparative we went to the Sealine Open Day back in the spring and you've guessed it... we're ignored and only spoken to when we started to clamber on boats unescorted!

We spoke to the Sales director refered to earlier, who to my mind even puts car salesman in a good light. He continually chased us for a deal. We were part ex'ing our Bayliner 2455 and his attitiue towards it was outrageous... 'we won't touch that' it's off to essex boatyards ! (whilst he may have a point it is nto what you say tot he customer!)

Anyway, RYB SUBSTANITALLY undercut Sealine Direct, have been curtious, polite, supportive and effecive throghout.

I'm sure we will have continued service after ....

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I dont have experience with the S41 or 42 but it might just be the difference in designs and setup, the 42 may do it under certain circumstances different to those of the 41. Must admit if the 41 does it radically then it may prove to be a badly set up boat, but all V botom boats will do it or atleast have the potential to do it.

My point was that chine walking isnt a problem in itself, all V bottoms will do it in some situations, its the possible cause of chine walking (vague steering, fish tailing etc etc )that can indicate a problem and should be checked out.

Ive never liked the sealines I dont think they are great at handling lively seas in any shape or form and are out performed by many of the other manufacturers, they wobble about and are vague this vagueness i think adds to the potential to chine walk at speed. I wouldnt be surprised if the S41 chine walking isnt a problem somewhere in design or setup! with fear of causing offense their hulls are more like soap dishes than hulls! all IMVHO but I suppose to be fair to the manufacturers all boats are a compromise between performance space and comfort etc so chine walking in the S41 may be a consequence of gaining somewhere else, maybe not agreat trade off but one they may see as worth it.

kevin
 
Slight blush

Ummm, feeling a bit guilty about this as one of the press pack over there to see the T60.

Anyhow, back to the complaint. Spent most of the time downstairs so I didn't see any close encounters with anything other than the two photoboats which, I think, were stationary most of the time. Helm was Sealine all of the time, as far as I am aware.

When Sealine said St Helier for the launch I wondered where the test water would be, given a lot of bodies and hence need for several ins and outs from harbour. In the end they chose St Aubins Bay rather than running out a distance to deeper water. When this post is read I'm sure they'll take the comments on board.

Probably a case of logistics getting the better part of usual factors, something I got caught by a few years back when creating a virtual tidal wave on the Trent at the urging of a television crew and show organiser when trying to film dragon boats of all things. My head still hung low over that episode...

Incidentally, for those interested Gerard Wainwright is handing over day-to-day control of the company shortly although remaining as chairman. New MD is Patrik von Sydow, formerly ops director.

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Re: Slight blush

Well done Kim for owning up!
I shall show your letter to Donald, the fisherman involved, who went from calmly fishing for mackerel to sudden unexpected storm conditions!
Did you see Hermees while you were out there?- it was the 4pm session we saw, although the Sealines were apparently out all day, and looked pretty impressive too!

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Re: Slight blush

Ah, the afternoon sessions were for dealers, the morning ones were for journos -- I was out early lunchtime. The T60 does look good in my view...but the most interesting things are inside with the accommodation layout.

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<font size=1>Ive never liked the sealines I dont think they are great at handling lively seas in any shape or form and are out performed by many of the other manufacturers</font size=1>

All subjective stuff I know but would have to disagree with you on the models with which I've had most experience. Most forum users will know I have a fondness for the F36/F37 and some considerable numbers of miles in various conditions to back that up. Also have been impressed by the 410/F43 hull when using over an extended period.

Way back I was also more than impressed by a 285 on a downwind run back from Dartmouth to the Solent in a F6-7; it outperformed the Fairline Sun Fury with us, perhaps because it had slightly fuller bows which made keeping it from burying and digging green water an easier thing. Upwind perhaps the Fairline would have had the edge -- we weren't brave enough to go back for another try!

I believe the early S41s did not have the best handling but this was due, as far as I can tell, to the outdrive set-up --- the first of the Volvo (and I think Merc also) legs tried didn't work so well but there was an imporovement in the Volvo 300-engined boats and I suspect that might have got better again with the later generation legs and engines. I spent a week earlier his year on a one-year-old S41 and can report it handled okay, even in some quite nasty 2m steep-sided waves.

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Chines and chine walking

Pedant time -- chine is the point at which the hull bottom meets the hull sides (top sides) -- in wooden boat terms the point where the side planking meets the bottom planking.

Most motorboats these days are hard chine designs (ie they have a single chine running from the transom right up to as far along the bow as there is a discernible apex between hull bottom and topsides). Some steel displacement motorboats (Vlets for example) are multi-chine (ie they have a more complex shape with several disctint points where plates meet plates at an angle).

To complicate the issue a little a lot of 1980s and early 1990s designs used 'chine flats' where there was quite a broad horizontal section running in from the topside before the hull shape proper commenced. Many classic Olesinski hulls of that era had these.

Hull design has largely moved a way from broad chine flats (partly because they can make for a harder time running upwind) but you often see some kind of turn-in at the chine, especially near the bow, to knock the spray back.

When discussing this kind of topic one should not forget the sprayrails which, because the boat rides on them at speed, can have the greatest effect on handling. On shaftdrive boats the scalloped aft sections to give prop clearance (sometimes called 'tunnels') can have quite an influence too. And I have also experienced what some might call chine walking on what was supposed to be a very seaworthy boat (an Aquastar 38) due to what I think was lack of baffles on an athwartships fuel tank coupled with too much throttle and trim tab in combination -- most over-engined semi-displacement designs can be made to handle very badly if you know which buttons to push although the keel and tendency of the boat to steer around the bow are the usual suspects.

So, like so much else in boating, the expression 'chine riding' or 'chine walking' can be misleading insofar as it can be used to describe conditions nothing to do with the chines themselves.

For anyone that grew up with sportsboats chine walking might be a more familiar condition because so much depended upon outboard installation and the amount of grunt available. I remember a few adrenalin inducing moments on a Fletcher when opening it up with (the then) impressive 120 horses of a Merc which, probably, was bolted to the wrong but of the transom. The sheer torque of the prop made it lean over as it was coming up on the plane -- the chine flat bit on that side, giving a big lift boost, the boat flopped over the other way and so the process continued until I realised that, unlike a Hollywood action hero, I was unlikely to be able to drive through it to triumph on the other side.

On outdrive boats the outdrives themselves (location and characterics) tend to play a major part in procedings and I suspect this was the case with the early S41s.



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