Sea trial and survey issues

[ColleyV8]

Ok, first time needing a survey and sea trial on the Prestige 32

Its running tamd41p engines, came out for scrub and survey checks

Structurally its sound, some small bits needing tidying up, priced at bottom end of the market for that age boat

Main issues identified today, probably more in the report

Just wondering who would be responsible to fix or sort them

1 engines have oil leaks
2 elbow and turbo show signs of corrosion, elbow badly
3 reached 3600 revs but didn't get passed 18knts, thought it would be mid 20s
4 analogue instruments on flybridge don't work, trim indicator and a few other downstairs don't work
5 white smoke at start up, took about 5 turns to start
6 blackish smoke at wot, seems to reduce a bit but still there after 30 mins
7 play or clunk on props, think its the coupler
8 some positive crankcase pressure on engines

Few more bits but thinking of pulling out and finding another next year

Is this normal for 20 year old boat

Any help would be appreciated

 

[philipdawsonladds]

I bought a 20 year old boat - none of the above issues - very few were fixed by the seller or price reduced to compensate - I'd get the seller to resolve

 

[DavidJ]

I’ve got a 20 yr old boat bought from new. (KAD 43’s)
None of the above issues.
Things do happen like elbows and turbos (I have replaced mine over the last couple of years) but the important thing is staying on top of things which it doesn’t look like the owner has done.
I wonder what other problems lurk

 

[ColleyV8]

I’ve got a 20 yr old boat bought from new. (KAD 43’s)
None of the above issues.
Things do happen like elbows and turbos (I have replaced mine over the last couple of years) but the important thing is staying on top of things which it doesn’t look like the owner has done.
I wonder what other problems lurk

That's my view, if maintenance hasn't been kept up, what else was left, forgot to add the house bank batteries where 9v

 

[ST840]

That's my view, if maintenance hasn't been kept up, what else was left, forgot to add the house bank batteries where 9v

Sounds like somebody's been boating on a budget. If the seller is not prepared to sort the issues himself, walk away!

 

[ColleyV8]

Sounds like somebody's been boating on a budget. If the seller is not prepared to sort the issues himself, walk away!

I haven't put them forward yet, still waiting for written report, should I expect all these issues resolved at sellers expense, or is there give an take based on age etc?

 

[DavidJ]

I haven't put them forward yet, still waiting for written report, should I expect all these issues resolved at sellers expense, or is there give an take based on age etc?

There is no long term relationship to be had here so it down to bargaining the best deal that you can get which means negotiating the seller to do the work and you to get the lowest price you can. But do it with a smile. ?
You sound like too nicer guy.

 

[markc]

That's a hefty list. I would expect the engines to be properly sorted at least. I would also think that you'll also find a bunch of other stuff that is a bit crap too, so bear that in mind.

 

[Tranona]

I haven't put them forward yet, still waiting for written report, should I expect all these issues resolved at sellers expense, or is there give an take based on age etc?

That depends on how the boat was presented and the price in relation to other similar aged boats of hopefully the same type. If it is "cheap" then what you have found explains in part the low asking price. check that the contract you signed allows you to walk away for any reason (and that list is more than enough).

Next take advice from your surveyor/engineer - that is what you are paying him for - as to what sort of money is required to get the boat up to a usable condition and how much the boat would be worth. That gives you a basis for deciding whether it is worth negotiating on the offer price such that the end result is satisfactory for you . there are no hard and fast rules the aim is get get a boat you are happy with at an appropriate price.

Is this normal for a 20 year old boat? Only if it has been hard used and neglected - do you want a boat like that which requires work to bring it back to where it should be?

 

[ST840]

As I understand it the engine access on the prestige 32 is hideous. So this is definitely the main target, get the seller to properly sort the engines at the very least. If you fancy taking on the other bits, get the price reduced too so as to align with the work required.
As mentioned above, do it in a friendly manner but don't be a push over. Decide what deal you're happy with then stick to it. Be prepared to walk away.

 

[tillergirl]

The survey suggests mechanically, the maintenance has not been up to scratch. Probably for a while. A thorough mechanical 'upgrade' is necessary.
Is there any evidence of routine regular servicing? If 'No', would you really want the seller to 'solve' all the problems. Adjust the offer or walk.

 

[oldgit]

You usually get what you pay for, if prepared to fix them " problems" in order to get yourself a boat perhaps within a very tight budget, them simply bid on the boat after deducting the estimated cost of fixing and your time.
You are not here to keep the seller happy, any boat is only worth what any buyer is prepared to pay.
On a nice desirable sought after boat, maintained within an inch of its life and if people are queing up to buy it, you will end paying the market rate.
Everything else is fair game ? Most will run a mile, some would put in a low offer.
If you are prepared to have a go yourself might be worth a bid, if your going to buy in the expertise, probably not.
Is the boat local, is there anywhere to keep it it while you fix it. Are there so few on the market to make this one even worth considering.
Having searched high and low on the interweb for the "right boat" and then having travelled to the desolate ends of the earth, ie. Wales and Durham, finally found our new money pit literally on the doorstep.
On the way back home the tacho on the flybridge packed up. Had look at the wiring diagram, ...................going to save it for another day.
It basically now works when it feels like it.

 

[Portofino]

Didn’t you see the oil leeks , the rusty elbow (s) , U S instruments, test + ve crank pressure ( palm of hand on the oil filler hole ) , ease of firing up or otherwise before putting an offer in and going through the U.K. deposit, lift , sea trail malarkey ?

If you are not mechanical minded ( experienced with motors ) then take a mate who is for the first look- see .
Also in the brokers office if he’s any use ask to read the history file .
The brokers admittedly in the SoF representing 2 x Pershings and 2 x Itama I had in my sights all had a thick file of service history in there offices and left me with a coffee to peruse before showing me the boats .
Similarly when I came to offload the then 11 y old Sunseeker ( KAD 300 / DPG ) I had to copy so much stuff , do a lot of prep to hand to the broker , engine service invoices ( inc elbows / risers in a timely way ) + gen S / Skr repairs , maintenance like toilet service etc .

The broker obviously does his own pics and descriptions etc .
This means for ALL , you the buyer , the seller and the broker there’s less chance of a misunderstanding leading to a sale collapse.

Take a torch + mirror and ask to see in every compartment.Theses days with phones as well you can take pics reaching in awkward areas as well .

Ask the broker ( to ask the seller ) before , or in his office “ does it reach rated rpm @ WOT “
Go from there .
Obviously if it’s dirty , the bottom and props it won’t , but ask if it did after it’s last annual .
Your black smoke@ WOT is overloaded not a good sign .
You can Google overloaded marine Diesel engines , but they should all reach rated rpm at WOT and slightly over by a tiny % .

By way of illustration , here’s mind last month 4 months after its annual.
Apologies for those who are gonna cause me of regurgitation of pics .But the point stands .


Manufacturer says they are rated to 2200 rpm .
This means the propping is correct and the engines are in tune etc .No obvious unusual smoke either .

The additional info like the load / fuel burn which granted you can’t see with aged Volvos just confirms the 20 year ( TWENTY ) engines are in rude health .

Was like this when I sea trailed it in the fall of 2014 BTW .

msg = do your own eyeball checks ask the broker to sight the SH and the killer Q “ does it make rated rpm @ WOT before entering the U.K. deposit/ sea-trial malarky

 

[KINGFISHER 8]

Keep looking!

 

[Jamie Dundee]

My 21yo ‘41 looks like this. From your description I’d walk quickly away. Depending on where the oil is coming from be aware that these engines have form for rotting oil pans, which usually means engine out to fix.

 

[ColleyV8]

Thanks for all your replies, mai problem in todays market is the broker is normally non conclusive on any boat we have asked questions on, some completely unwilling to answer any questions, I didn't see any leaks when I viewed but the surveyor is more astute obviously.

Will probably walk and find another one, but survey report should be here tomorrow so will see what they suggest

 

[oldgit]

survey report should be here tomorrow so will see what they suggest

As you have paid good money for a survey possibly might be worth waiting to see what the report reveals ,before coming to any conclusion ?
Usually a summing up at the end with recommendations .
Normally broken down into,
What seriously urgently needs fixing .
What you might like to sort in the near future.
What can wait, or you might be able to live with ie cosmetic stuff.
Do let us know the results.

 

[Tranona]

Agree. Wait until you have more information. also you need to review the contract you have signed to see the grounds available for withdrawal. Of you are going to withdraw you need to be able to use the findings of the survey appropriately so that you avoid getting into arguments. Again use your surveyor.

 

[superheat6k]

Have you instructed an engine surveyor, or a general surveyor, as the latter will only provide cursory remake about the engines.

But this lot smacks of negligent maintenance, and the key problem is you just do not know what else lurks awaiting to get you after the boat is yours.

Brokers represent the vendor who is paying them. Not answering difficult questions enables them to claim they did not provide misleading advice, but if they are aware of an issue then they are obliged to explain this, so ask straight concise questions, but ultimately 'buyer beware' - i.e. find your own answers.

Sub-20 knots sounds about right for a 32' boat on these engines, but are the props and hull clean ?

You are buying at the wrong end of the season, so the owner will be very keen to get rid - I would start negotiating very hard, or as suggested perhaps time to walk.

For me I will never own another VP engine, which rules out a vast number of boats I would ever consider.

 

[ColleyV8]

Tranona, I have a clear walk away clause if I don't like the boat, Superheat it makes sense but I would want to see at least 25 kts wot and no smoke to proceed, everything else can be fixed, concerned about the oil pan issues mentioned earlier

The problem is most things only come to light on the trial, which has to be after lift out and clean, so smoke on WOT and other bits aren't visible, at least its on a few hundred quid.

I still like the boat, understand it was about 5k under value but that was cosmetics so will need mechanical to be good

Will keep you informed, oldgit I think you are right