Sea Toilet woes

[Canopy Locked]

As the title suggests, suffering with a build-up of calcium (?) deposits in the toilet and pipes - assume this is to do with the fact that seawater is used. Changing to fresh water is not an option unfortunately. We have a 4 monthly maintenance procedure to strip down and clean, but just wonder if anyone has ideas regards fluids / cleaners that can be used regularly without damaging seals / o rings etc. Opinions gratefully received. Thx

 

[johnalison]

There have been many threads on the issue, with multiple answers. These vary from taking the pipes off and bashing them to using brick cleaner. In the end, prevention is better than a cure, and the chief culprit is failure to pump water through after use, whether salt or fresh.

 

[Tranona]

As the title suggests, suffering with a build-up of calcium (?) deposits in the toilet and pipes - assume this is to do with the fact that seawater is used. Changing to fresh water is not an option unfortunately. We have a 4 monthly maintenance procedure to strip down and clean, but just wonder if anyone has ideas regards fluids / cleaners that can be used regularly without damaging seals / o rings etc. Opinions gratefully received. Thx

The key is to avoid leaving seawater in the pipework for extended periods. The "damage" is done when you are not using the boat, so I flush 5l of fresh water through when I leave the boat. I have a holding tank and if I used the loo a lot I would close the outlet and leave fresh water in the tank.

 

[rotrax]

When I leave the boat I put 2.5 litres of white vinegar into the pipework and bowl.

I pump until at normal level in the bowl, knowing that the vinegar is all through the system, right up to the outlet seacock. This is then turned off.

Returning to the boat after several weeks and pumping the heads, if in clear water, a whitish cloud can be seen near the outlet.

This is the softened coating coming out.

Works for me, and has for nine years.

Can smell a bit like a chippy for a few minutes though.....................................

 

[RivalRedwing]

Building on johnalison I suspect a key issue is insufficient pumping for the length of pipe...try increasing the number of pumps by 50% (within reason!) to see if that helps.

 

[capnsensible]

My commercial boats got masses of use. So, of course, did the heads. The outlet pipe calcified. It does this on every boat. It can do it on submarines!

Acid clears it. Someone mentioned brick cleaner. I understand this is diluted hydrochloric acid. My experience is with the Spanish product, Agua Fuerte. This is a 26% solution of hydrochloric acid. Sold in supermarkets all over for around 1 euro a litre. I've used it stacks and it does the job properly. Flush afterwards with lots of pumping. I've only had a problem with pump seals if I've left it too long.

Also works on your paddle wheel log impellor.....mind the o seals.

Widely used at every travel hoists across the peninsular for de scaling propellers. .

The scaling will happen. Acid is your.......solution!

 

[geem]

My commercial boats got masses of use. So, of course, did the heads. The outlet pipe calcified. It does this on every boat. It can do it on submarines!

Acid clears it. Someone mentioned brick cleaner. I understand this is diluted hydrochloric acid. My experience is with the Spanish product, Agua Fuerte. This is a 26% solution of hydrochloric acid. Sold in supermarkets all over for around 1 euro a litre. I've used it stacks and it does the job properly. Flush afterwards with lots of pumping. I've only had a problem with pump seals if I've left it too long.

Also works on your paddle wheel log impellor.....mind the o seals.

Widely used at every travel hoists across the peninsular for de scaling propellers. .

The scaling will happen. Acid is your.......solution!

This matches my experience exactly. In the Caribbean it's called muriatic acid.
We use it periodically to keep pipes clean. It works

 

[NormanS]

Prevention is better than cure. Jabsco suggest a minimum of seven pump strokes of flushing water per metre of outlet. Brick cleaner containing hydrochloric acid will clear it, but much better not to let it happen.

 

[geem]

As liveaboards we found the Jabsco toilets not up to the frequent use. Copious amounts of pumping and the use of acid once a week were not enough. We found we would need to grease the pump shafts at least every two weeks or they would go stiff. Everything seemed to wear out quickly. We always seem to develop leaks.
We used to carry lots of spares and complete spare pumps. It felt like I was a full time sanitation engineer ?
Whilst back in the UK we took advantage and removed the Jabsco loos and replaced them with Blake's Lavacs. We hope they are as reliable as the one we had on our previous boat. That was only serviced once in 11 years!
You don't need to do anything like as much pumping as you can almost empty the bowl with a single stroke. We do however have a regime of pumping twice as much as Lavac recommend

 

[NormanS]

As liveaboards we found the Jabsco toilets not up to the frequent use. Copious amounts of pumping and the use of acid once a week were not enough. We found we would need to grease the pump shafts at least every two weeks or they would go stiff. Everything seemed to wear out quickly. We always seem to develop leaks.
We used to carry lots of spares and complete spare pumps. It felt like I was a full time sanitation engineer ?
Whilst back in the UK we took advantage and removed the Jabsco loos and replaced them with Blake's Lavacs. We hope they are as reliable as the one we had on our previous boat. That was only serviced once in 11 years!
You don't need to do anything like as much pumping as you can almost empty the bowl with a single stroke. We do however have a regime of pumping twice as much as Lavac recommend

That has not been my experience. The opposite in fact. I wouldn't dream of using acid every week, and neither of my toilets leak.

 

[geem]

That has not been my experience. The opposite in fact. I wouldn't dream of using acid every week, and neither of my toilets leak.

Are you living onboard 9 months of the year?
Our experience is not unique. Many of our friends living this life have the same issues. We all hate Jabsco bogs

 

[webcraft]

Been living aboard for 14 out of the last 18 months and no issues. We have a rule to pump 20 times. 15 is enough to clear the pipework.

It is leaving piss sitting in the pipes that causes the problem.

- W

 

[Travelling Westerly]

Are you living onboard 9 months of the year?
Our experience is not unique. Many of our friends living this life have the same issues. We all hate Jabsco bogs

Like you I live aboard and have found a similar issue with the Jabsco pumps. Both our Jabsco heads pumps go stiff ish after about 4 to 5 days. Fresh water flush used to help but I prefer to use seawater. I used to take the plunger pump out and clean/re grease but now find a small drop of 3in1 oil on the shaft works wonders. I leave a small bottle of oil in both heads

 

[bikedaft]

Never had this issue in 48 years of (ab)using boat toilets. Always pumped through clean seawater at the end. Wonder if the seawater has different compositions around the UK??

 

[capnsensible]

Whenever this subject comes up, there is always someone who claims they've never had a problem.

Yet those that live on their yachts or fun commercial boats with high usage do. A lot. So it happens. A lot. And the op asked for something that works to rectify the problem. Its acid.

So well done pumpers. Enjoy your heads outlet pipe freedom. But at least you will know what to do if it ever happens to you!

Ps works on lavac too. Got that on the boat we lived on for 22 years.

 

[Stemar]

Big +1 for more flushing. We never had any real problems with our loo because the rule was a dozen pumps after everything's gone. This for about 1.5m of outlet hose.

The RM toilet wore out after about 12 years and a new Jabsco was cheaper than a repair kit for the Jabsco, so I changed the hose while I was at it, but it only had a couple of mm of crud.

 

[Canopy Locked]

My commercial boats got masses of use. So, of course, did the heads. The outlet pipe calcified. It does this on every boat. It can do it on submarines!

Acid clears it. Someone mentioned brick cleaner. I understand this is diluted hydrochloric acid. My experience is with the Spanish product, Agua Fuerte. This is a 26% solution of hydrochloric acid. Sold in supermarkets all over for around 1 euro a litre. I've used it stacks and it does the job properly. Flush afterwards with lots of pumping. I've only had a problem with pump seals if I've left it too long.

Also works on your paddle wheel log impellor.....mind the o seals.

Widely used at every travel hoists across the peninsular for de scaling propellers. .

The scaling will happen. Acid is your.......solution!

This is a commercial workboat so in daily use, though not always at sea. Thanks for all the comments, especially about extra flushing. It's also an electric flush with a sort of vacuum suck so we can't pump "extra" as such on a flush. We'll look into a weak acidic solution as well as a daily flush with fresh water. Thanks for your interest!

 

[rotrax]

Our last thirteen years sailing has been on boats with Raritan heads.

I find my vinegar regime works well, no build up in the outlet pipe plus a bottle of cooking oil is always available in the heads cupboard.

A Jamie Oliver 'splosh' of this into the water filled pan improves the stiffness quotient 200%. On the Raritan it lubes the 'O' rings on the pump piston.

The shaft is never lubed, only at installation of a rebuild kit. With sillicone grease. About every five years. Joker is changed when defective, as is the weighted flap valve.

After dealing with a crappy TCM electric in NZ and a sheared off outlet seacock handle - sheared off closed - after a busy trip on a Jabsco equiped Hunter I have NVQ level 4 in sea bogs, rubber gloves, nasty smells and material, bleach and disinfectant..................................

 

[geem]

Comparing typical use of a loo on a UK based boat, none liveaboard with our use. Assuming you spend 20 weekends onboard and a months annual holiday you have about 70 days use of you loo annually. We do typically 9 months full-time aboard although it will be 12 months this time. So in a typical year our loo gets four times the use of a UK based recreational sailor. So five years use on your reliable Jabsco is equivalent to 20 years use for us. In five years we will expect a couple of pumps each and other parts in between. This is on a two heads boat with only two people aboard most of the time.

 

[NormanS]

Comparing typical use of a loo on a UK based boat, none liveaboard with our use. Assuming you spend 20 weekends onboard and a months annual holiday you have about 70 days use of you loo annually. We do typically 9 months full-time aboard although it will be 12 months this time. So in a typical year our loo gets four times the use of a UK based recreational sailor. So five years use on your reliable Jabsco is equivalent to 20 years use for us. In five years we will expect a couple of pumps each and other parts in between. This is on a two heads boat with only two people aboard most of the time.

Oh dear! If it's such a big problem for you, just go back to "bucket and chuckit". ?