awol
Well-Known Member
But that's the lovely thing about being the overtakee - there is no obligation to keep out of the way of the overtaker. There is no "stand on" or "give way", just a simple imperative on the overtaking vessel to keep clear.
Sea Sense
- Thread starter DAKA
- Start date
But that's the lovely thing about being the overtakee - there is no obligation to keep out of the way of the overtaker. There is no "stand on" or "give way", just a simple imperative on the overtaking vessel to keep clear.
DJE
Well-Known Member
If that's how you read it I hope that I never have to overtake you!
NormanS
Well-Known Member
Motor-sailing
Colregs: Rule 25. (e).
"A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards."
Colregs: Rule 25. (e).
"A vessel proceeding under sail when also being propelled by machinery shall exhibit forward where it can best be seen a conical shape, apex downwards."
awol
Well-Known Member
If you can read the words to give any other interpretation then I am interested.
"13(a) Notwithstanding anything contained in the Rules of Part B, Sections I and II any vessel overtaking any other shall keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken."
I think you will find Rule 17 is part of Part B Section II.
DJE
Well-Known Member
Quite. But rule 2 isn't and I think that sudden changes of course without looking behind might fit the definition of "neglect of any precaution which may be required by the ordinary practice of seamen, or by the special circumstances of the case".
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Sea Sense?
I know I have posted this photo before, but I just did not believe what this Skipper was doing.
We (my wife & myself) gave way to this vessel by altering course and coming round the stern. I knew we were fine on our heading but my wife doesn’t like being within 1/2nm of any merchant traffic. So as this was not an issue, and to keep the peace for the weekend I complied.
There is also a couple sailing their Contessa 26 (engineless) all over the world who’s approach is to give way to all merchant traffic. Which I personally think is a sensible approach when considering their tonnage, maneuverability and draught compared to yours.
I do have another photo of this yacht with his sail number, and I am tempted to track him down just so that I never end up sailing on this yacht or as part of the same crew as this Skipper.
I know I have posted this photo before, but I just did not believe what this Skipper was doing.
We (my wife & myself) gave way to this vessel by altering course and coming round the stern. I knew we were fine on our heading but my wife doesn’t like being within 1/2nm of any merchant traffic. So as this was not an issue, and to keep the peace for the weekend I complied.
There is also a couple sailing their Contessa 26 (engineless) all over the world who’s approach is to give way to all merchant traffic. Which I personally think is a sensible approach when considering their tonnage, maneuverability and draught compared to yours.
I do have another photo of this yacht with his sail number, and I am tempted to track him down just so that I never end up sailing on this yacht or as part of the same crew as this Skipper.
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Twister_Ken
Well-Known Member
Without knowing the relative speed of the two vessels, and their separation when the shot was taken, it's impossible to say whether that's a tight rectum moment or just another day at the office.
Who's the RYA?
DAKA
Well-Known Member
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webcraft
Well-Known Member
Have a look at the relative sizes of the yacht and the ship and apply your own day to day rule of thumb law of perspective - that yacht is a LONG way past the ship. I doubt the skipper's rectum even fluttered.
- W
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Good Seamanship?
I think people who adopt this kind of attitude should be subject to an enquiry, and if found guilty of endangering their own and the lives of others then they should receive a severe dressing down, all their details held on record and if a further example of “bad seamanship” is repeated should be banned and / or fined as a result.
Come-on guys, safety, fair play and common sense should always prevail, and not a degree of arrogance or stupidity.
I think people who adopt this kind of attitude should be subject to an enquiry, and if found guilty of endangering their own and the lives of others then they should receive a severe dressing down, all their details held on record and if a further example of “bad seamanship” is repeated should be banned and / or fined as a result.
Come-on guys, safety, fair play and common sense should always prevail, and not a degree of arrogance or stupidity.
awol
Well-Known Member
Who said anything about not looking? Where would be the fun in that? I presume then you accept that changes of course per se are not proscribed for the overtakee?
The point I was trying to make (unsuccessfully) is that despite Daka's choice of selective and sometimes idiosyncratic interpretations of the rules, he has NO rights (or hardly any) when he is the overtaking vessel. I would, of course, advocate courtesy and consideration at all times and early avoidance of confrontation if at all possible.
As for motoring - a running engine has to be in gear to count as propelling machinery - see posts passim ad nauseum. Water out the exhaust does not necessarily mean a vessel under sail should be treated as a power craft.
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Why?
Why do certain people have to take undue risks and cause situations which can be easily avoided?
I don’t think the MV had to alter course, but I do believe he reduced rev’s so as to allow the Yacht to pass safely.
Why do certain people have to take undue risks and cause situations which can be easily avoided?
I don’t think the MV had to alter course, but I do believe he reduced rev’s so as to allow the Yacht to pass safely.
flaming
Well-Known Member
Why do certain people have to take undue risks and cause situations which can be easily avoided?
I don’t think the MV had to alter course, but I do believe he reduced rev’s so as to allow the Yacht to pass safely.
I hate getting involved in these threads, but that one just shouted at me.
How can you possibly know that? Were you on board either vessel?
Appologies if you were, but otherwise you're judging how the situation occurred, the reactions of both skippers and the clearance from one photo.
For all we know the yacht was well clear until the ship made a turn. Hand's up anyone who's never had that happen to them... Anyone???
OGITD
Well-Known Member
Take the safest option.
What we lack in speed we make up for in maneuverability.
There was an observed reduction in the bow wave and the wake of the MV. And although I was not conducting any TMA I believe for the cost of an extra ten ish minutes he should of altered course and passed around the stern of the MV.
So what is wrong with acting in a manner which is always to take the safest option and not cause an issue, event or incident?
What we lack in speed we make up for in maneuverability.
There was an observed reduction in the bow wave and the wake of the MV. And although I was not conducting any TMA I believe for the cost of an extra ten ish minutes he should of altered course and passed around the stern of the MV.
So what is wrong with acting in a manner which is always to take the safest option and not cause an issue, event or incident?
Sailfree
Well-Known Member
Providing you do it early enough OK but ColRegs exist to give clarity as to obligations and the worse situation is if the give way vessels alters course correctly and the stand on vessel also alters course in such a manner that a collision risk still exists.
The col regs are simply based on those with the best ability to manoeuvre should. So lets be polite to the dinghy sailor hard on the wind tacking up a narrow channel but also lets not inconvience others unecessarily by tacking up a narrow channel when we have an engine that enables us to motor up the channel even if it our "right" to sail up!
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
This is absolutely correct. I was probably an oversight by the compilers of the regulations but careful reading will show that they do not require an overtaken vessel to hold course and speed. Good manners, common sense and seamanship may say you should but the rules don't.
snowleopard
Well-Known Member
I guess there are almost as many untrained raggies who think power always gives way to sail an there are untrained stinkies who think we drive on the left in British waters. There was a case of a raggie in a sizeable cruiser charging across Portsmouth harbour, straight for a small angling boat which was anchored and showing a ball. He ran so close to the dinghy that he carried away their anchor warp while yelling 'power gives way to sail'.
There have been several raggies on here who have said that it is OK to tack across the bows of a mobo because he should be able to anticipate your moves.
I guess one shouldn't be surprised at boaters making up their own rules. You have only to drive on a motorway to see unwritten rules like - 'barge onto the motorway when joining, it's up to those in the slow lane to keep out of your way' or 'if you're doing 70 you are entitled to stay in the middle lane'.
Cruiser2B
Well-Known Member
Nice, but they haven't kept up with the latest amendments. These nice Canadians have, but they include Cdn mods: http://laws.justice.gc.ca/eng/C.R.C.-c.1416/
This site conveniently provides International rules and US Inland rules for comparison: http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/mwv/navrules/rotr_online.htm
You can always go to the original source, but the site's cr*p: http://www.imo.org/
But I suggest for your purposes, something closer to home: http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/msn_1781-2.pdf